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    well if they can afford it are they working class? the original point is a pointless debate...I actually hate all this presentation of data in arguments--you claimed my info was invalid when you thought it was to support a left -wing argument , Howard, when you found it was to support the alternative argument , i presume the information suddenly becomes valid?!! I'm starting to realise how this so-called "objective" debate works(!)
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well one of the criteria must be being able to afford it. So if you can't afford it you can't go (unless the school is kind enough to grant a scholarship of some sort) But that's the school's business.
    the private school i went to here cost about the same as the state system school.
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    Many kids from working class backgrounds can go to an independent school providing the school awards full scholarships on grounds on academic merit and social background. It enhances the results of the schools if they can admit highly able children.

    In fact, some independents keep their charitable status by doing exactly this.

    I have no strong feelings either way on the question - having had experience of both.
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    (Original post by amicus)
    I know a lot of ppl in my school who would comment if a working class person came into the school ...
    It's not a hypothetical. It happens.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Howard the first one is a quote from Lawzzz actually, if you look above, i was arguing his point by taking his word, the second one was speculation which i was asking for confirmation of?
    Sorry, took it as a statement. Anyway, the average black income in the US is far far lower than the Western European average (obviously the recent admission of some of the East European countries might blur it a bit) And unemployment in the US is much lower than the EU average.
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    (Original post by technik)
    the private school i went to here cost about the same as the state system school.
    I didn't think state schools cost anything.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    well if they can afford it are they working class? the original point is a pointless debate...I actually hate all this presentation of data in arguments--you claimed my info was invalid when you thought it was to support a left -wing argument , Howard, when you found it was to support the alternative argument , i presume the information suddenly becomes valid?!! I'm starting to realise how this so-called "objective" debate works(!)
    Objectivity, like beauty, is only skin deep.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Sorry, took it as a statement. Anyway, the average black income in the US is far far lower than the Western European average (obviously the recent admission of some of the East European countries might blur it a bit) And unemployment in the US is much lower than the EU average.
    ok, if thats objective of course
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I didn't think state schools cost anything.
    some dont, many do. in northern ireland at least.

    the state grammar i went to was about £800-1k a year. (this was mid 90's)

    probably why its the best education system in the UK. because it has money in it.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Objectivity, like beauty, is only skin deep.
    mmm....but would Vienna ever admit that? not in a million years
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    The private school I went to was around £12,500 per annum-scholarships knocking off about half-however they had an attitude about who they accepted-you had to have come from an "approved" school and go through loads of tests and to be honest if someone had come from a local state school it would have been harder for them to mesh in. It's a completely different environment. I prefer the education system the way it is-it's like (and this will sound bizzare and random) you buy a meal from mcdonalds some people can only get the medium meal which is fine-whereas some people are able to pay that extra 20p for a large meal where they get that bit more. This is harsh but private and state schools are two completely different environments-I wouldn't be able to fit into a state school and someone from a state school would find it tough to fit in a private school. I would hate for it to change because I love the environment I grew up in and want the same for my children. It's hardly the 'posh snobs' fault they can afford it.
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    (Original post by ruthiepooos)
    The private school I went to was around £12,500 per annum-scholarships knocking off about half-however they had an attitude about who they accepted-you had to have come from an "approved" school and go through loads of tests and to be honest if someone had come from a local state school it would have been harder for them to mesh in. It's a completely different environment. I prefer the education system the way it is-it's like (and this will sound bizzare and random) you buy a meal from mcdonalds some people can only get the medium meal which is fine-whereas some people are able to pay that extra 20p for a large meal where they get that bit more. This is harsh but private and state schools are two completely different environments-I wouldn't be able to fit into a state school and someone from a state school would find it tough to fit in a private school. I would hate for it to change because I love the environment I grew up in and want the same for my children. It's hardly the 'posh snobs' fault they can afford it.
    I agree that the system should not necessarily be abolished...if people want to be segregated to a certain extent....thats probably a good idea for the reasons you mention
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    not at all-tradition is needed. Plu sit won't happen because private schools can say to the government 'screw how much you're going to pay me, i won't take on these kids.' People probably think I am being way harsh but believe me it's true-poo to equal education-the truth is unfortunatly if you want the best you have to pay for it or use your initiative to make it work for you.
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    (Original post by ruthiepooos)
    not at all-tradition is needed.
    Tradition isn't needed for itself. There are far stronger arguments for preserving public schools than the need to preserve traditions.
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    [QUOTE=d750]Tradition isn't needed for itself. There are far stronger arguments for preserving public schools than the need to preserve traditions.[/QUOTE=d750]
    What are your arguements for private ed?
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    [QUOTE=ruthiepooos]
    (Original post by d750)
    Tradition isn't needed for itself. There are far stronger arguments for preserving public schools than the need to preserve traditions.[/QUOTE=d750]
    What are your arguements for private ed?
    Just that private education can provide a generally higher standard of education than that available at state schools because of their fees. Traditions seem like a bit of an irrelevance.
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    (Original post by d750)
    Tradition isn't needed for itself. There are far stronger arguments for preserving public schools than the need to preserve traditions.
    Yes, that they actually produce literate and numerate individuals is an argument that immediately springs to mind.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Yes, that they actually produce literate and numerate individuals is an argument that immediately springs to mind.
    What about self-taught people?
    I just don't believe the notion that you must go through however many years at a certain kind of institution to learn a particular skill...Many people, perhaps even a majority of people who excel at something are probably best educated if they are intelligent, interested, and read through the literature themselves on what interests them
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    What about self-taught people?
    I just don't believe the notion that you must go through however many years at a certain kind of institution to learn a particular skill...Many people, perhaps even a majority of people who excel at something are probably best educated if they are intelligent, interested, and read through the literature themselves on what interests them
    That's true enough. There's no reason why you shouldn't become the world's leading edge expert on any number of subjects without being formally educated in it.

    I'm a big believer in autodidactic learning and actually got my law degree by distance learning with the OU (OK.....it's not exactly on a par with an Oxbridge law degree but it does go to show that a formal "bums on seats" education isn't everything)
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    (Original post by Howard)
    That's true enough. There's no reason why you shouldn't become the world's leading edge expert on any number of subjects without being formally educated in it.

    I'm a big believer in autodidactic learning and actually got my law degree by distance learning with the OU (OK.....it's not exactly on a par with an Oxbridge law degree but it does go to show that a formal "bums on seats" education isn't everything)
    Totally agreed, i mean my dads uni degree has nothing to do with his career, afterwards he converted by professional exams, and learns new stuff all the time. Learning is life long, if you are interested enough...also many people forget what they learnt graduating at 21, maybeif that have a few years off, etc
 
 
 
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