China Watch

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eurasianfeline
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#121
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#121
(Original post by supervin)
The Chinese Government covers matters up all the time and daily. At the very least, things are “sanitised” as reflected by current and past events – only just a couple of days ago, the great flood in China in the Hunan Province was heavily downplayed. Sources such as the BBC, CNN or Ming Pao in HK report a couple of hundred deaths and the dismal situation of housing, crops and peasants. I haven’t read into this deeply, but the reasons could lie once again in the failure of the Chinese Government in respect of the functioning or maintenance of the Three Gorges Dam. So this called for some “sanitisation”. Another reason for the censoring could merely be superstition: as it was very near June 4, the natural disaster could bring about “signs” as to the injustice and gross acts committed by the CCP in 1989 and this disaster was a punishment means to the country. Thirdly, this could be due to “saving face” - a timely reason that cannot be escaped due to Chinese culture. If you look into reports by Xinhua or Sina.com, you only see only pictures of families and babies being fed and granted shelter (by the lovely CCP) for a seemingly “small event”.


I pretty sure it’s not Ming Pao, but Shun Pao, the financial newspaper, which was pressurised a couple of years ago.


As always, this is a good trump card for the CCP to divert attention of Chinese citizens from the CCP failures and to calm them down by venting their anger on something else instead, while at the same time being able to milk deals and profits from Japan. This is not to say that Japan isn’t any more at fault however – by its unapologetic stance and having its PM worship the Yakusuni Shrine often so as to glorify Japan’s war criminals. Japan gives a substantial sum of aids, yes, but its political stance is far from harmonious. Not only China, but also South Korea and the Philippines have expressed similar sentiments.


That’s an obvious for China to slowly maintain control and restrict autonomy. The CCP also messes with HK’s legal system a great deal which links to politics. The recent Beijing “interpretation” of the Basic Law as to the length of the term allowed to Donald Tsang. Beijing rubber-stamping a reverse in the decision for right of abode seekers in HK by the Court of Final Appeal a number of years ago. The problematic Article 23 on “sedition, secession and subversion” which has a wide interpretation of the Basic Law.


Which also saps a lot of money out of HK as most mainlanders in HK spend their back in China with their families where the standard of living is much lower there.


The education reform was ridiculous. Tung had no knowledge of education and had to interfere with it, notwithstanding also interference with housing and the stock market which was the worst thing he could possibly do. The enforcement of Mandarin and the lessening of the importance of the English is dumbest thing to do in the name of patriotism: the lowering of standards of English dramatically which results in lower employability and prospects overall. The education system which stood the test of time in HK was reduced from 5 “Bands” to 3 in the name of “equality”, which was pointless and pathetic which served nothing but confusion and dropping of standards.


In short, the CCP are selfish, power-thirsty and ruthless without taking any interest in the well-being of HK or its citizens. By cracking down on a peaceful protest for democracy by Beijing students in 1989 using brute force, it reflects wonders about its nature. The CCP are simply using HK, sapping money and resources into China and doing whatever it can to replace HK in terms of competitiveness and advantages economically, regardless of method and without respect to anyone's freedoms or rights. The number of (public) hypocrites in HK are on the rise - for the sake of prospects and benefits in China, which is not helping the situation at all.

wow...i'm impressed by how much you know about the situation in hk.
wait...are you from hk?? or just someone who's too smart and reads the papers a lot. :rolleyes:
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thegame
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#122
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#122
(Original post by eurasianfeline)
Everyone knows its a desperate attempt to lower the standards in HK so the education in China can catch up / overtake HK
Are they, aren't the best universities all in Mainland, Beijing, Tsignhua etc.

Plus, from very limited personal experiance, Mainland chinese people in our school are damn intelligent, even more so than the HK.
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eurasianfeline
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#123
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#123
(Original post by thegame)
Are they, aren't the best universities all in Mainland, Beijing, Tsignhua etc.

Plus, from very limited personal experiance, Mainland chinese people in our school are damn intelligent, even more so than the HK.
the universities might be good. but the secondary schools etc and the majority of the schools in china aren't.

yes...there are very smart people too, and those people are often also the ones who study abroad.
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supervin
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#124
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#124
(Original post by thegame)
Are they, aren't the best universities all in Mainland, Beijing, Tsignhua etc.

Plus, from very limited personal experiance, Mainland chinese people in our school are damn intelligent, even more so than the HK.
Well yes, but what was discussed was employability and so intelligence does not have too much bearing taking into account a number of criteria. Plus, those tend to be in the sciences like mathematics and subjects involving calculations. The English language is a barrier, though this barrier is less so for HK students because they are taught the language since primary school - as opposed to secondary school or higher in China. China is inadvertently imposing such a barrier in HK which worsens the standard of students there by its policy, influence and restrictions.
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supervin
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#125
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#125
(Original post by eurasianfeline)
wait...are you from hk?? or just someone who ... reads the papers a lot.
I have yet to see The Times, Guardian or Independent report on these matters.
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eurasianfeline
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#126
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#126
(Original post by supervin)
I have yet to see The Times, Guardian or Independent report on these matters.
impressed i am. very impressed.
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Geordie_in_HK
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#127
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#127
the education system in HK is an absolute joke - it's far too difficult. HK has the highest teen suicide rate in the world.

The reason you see a few really intelligent chinese students is that those who work until midnight everynight and get through the brick sized syllabusses are bound to be very clever. however, other aspects of their lives suffer.

but Donald Tsang is going to get 100% of the 'vote' in the upcoming 'elections' so let's see what he can do.... *rolls eyes*
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Kondar
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#128
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#128
(Original post by evilcitizen)
Tiananmen Square was a terrible thing, but it does not fairly reflect modern day China. It's now become a convenient excuse for the US to pressure the EU to keep the arms embargo.

China is not what it was in 1989, anyone who has lived there can tell you that.
Over 800,000 Chinese citizens were imprisoned last year for 'crimes against the state'. They still refer to the Tianamen Massacre as a 'sweeping victory against the counter-revolutionaries'.
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Geordie_in_HK
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#129
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#129
Wild Grass by Ian Johnson - good book focusing on three normal people who tried to go against the state in legal ways and what happened to them.
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fr browne
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#130
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#130
(Original post by Kondar)
Over 800,000 Chinese citizens were imprisoned last year for 'crimes against the state'. They still refer to the Tianamen Massacre as a 'sweeping victory against the counter-revolutionaries'.
Many of the people do not know Tianamen happened or if they do they do not mention it. If you asked them, Why is this famous? They would reply it is where the people's republic was proclaimed.
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fr browne
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#131
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#131
(Original post by eurasianfeline)
the universities might be good. but the secondary schools etc and the majority of the schools in china aren't.

yes...there are very smart people too, and those people are often also the ones who study abroad.
Ive been to a Secondary School in China, it has just been rebuilt, an amazing building, 8 floors, a full athletics track, IT auites and full cateen facilities enough to seat 2,000 students. Discipline is strict with some classrooms fittted with cameras connected to the teacher's desk.
The students i talked to (would have been carefully selected) were all fluent in English and talked intelligently in English about Geograpghy Physics and Maths to a level I had not studied. It embarassed me (with my 10 words of Mandarin) to ask them to repeat it because I did not understand. The education system which I saw was a whole lot better than any British teaching. These secondary schools are good, I drove past probably 8 more like it in Beijing, all of the student recieving the highest standard of education, and all (bar 1) wished to reamin in China to study.
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supervin
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#132
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(Original post by Geordie_in_HK)
the education system in HK is an absolute joke - it's far too difficult. HK has the highest teen suicide rate in the world.

The reason you see a few really intelligent chinese students is that those who work until midnight everynight and get through the brick sized syllabusses are bound to be very clever. however, other aspects of their lives suffer.

but Donald Tsang is going to get 100% of the 'vote' in the upcoming 'elections' so let's see what he can do.... *rolls eyes*
If you discount the language differences and only consider the education/knowledge level, a lot of students from China are a whole lot more intelligent than those in HK. It's just that the students from China are poor at English and they can only express what they know via Chinese in which is the (only) language they are well-versed. But of course, if you take things like history and politics and discuss with them, the ones from China seem strange/dumber because they are force-fed the CCP propaganda embedded in the syllabus content.

What's really baffling is HK's teenage suicide rate. China's education system is much more rigorous and difficult than that of the one in HK - in the sixth form, an average school day from 7 AM to 7 PM, including Saturdays, with homework exceeding 5 hours which means the student often only gets 4 hours' sleep a night; and holidays not exceeding two weeks a year (no summer holidays). Often the rigour and difficulty disparities are existent in subjects like mathematics; compared between HK and China using UK A-level as a difficulty level: while the typical student in HK learns A-level mathematics when they are aged 15/16, the ones in China start to learn it at 14/15. And somehow, students in China manage to keep their sanity intact and evade suicide in their teenage years better than those in HK.
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Geordie_in_HK
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#133
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#133
yeah, the HK suicide rate is baffling and needs serious attention. Maybe it's a culture difference between HK and China - HK being more westernised and therefore the kids aren't prepared to work as hard... There's always stories in the paper of a gf and bf renting a room on Cheng Chau and killing themselves in the holidays.... crazy.

I wouldn't want to raise my kids in the HK education system. International schools too have their problems.
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milady
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#134
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#134
I'd like to point out that you don't have to be democratic to be a superpower, esp when you have a large population. Totalitarian states, with no obstacles in their way, can also take more expedient actions (eg. the rule of no more than one baby per couple). There may be a great number of people whose lives are terrible, but the government, or a ruling class may be quite powerful internationally.

America has a huge trade deficit with China. China (or Chinese companies) import a load of goods and must get paid. They get paid in bonds issued by the US government, or in US shares/stock etc. They end up owning a nice chunk of the US economy. This is power, no?
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IZZY!
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#135
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#135
It will take ages for China only to become economic superpower. Then perhaps ages again to become militarily powerful. China's economic growth at 8% wont be constant and may decrease or increase. Look at South East Asia. Some years ago South Korea could have become G7 country with one of the leading economies in the world. However now its economy ranked as approx. 20th. Same can happen with China. Its growth can significantly decrease, especially when the new generation will have to feed the present one. This will increase taxes significantly and therefore economy will suffer badly, since not many people will have money to buy goods.
As many people mentioned, USA economy wont decline. In fact at the moment its growth rate at 3-4% is quite high and will increase, because population in America is well educated. Lets not talk about rural areas, lets talk about students who get their degrees from the Ivy League unis.They are the people who will lead USA to prosperity.
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Geordie_in_HK
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#136
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China will find it extremely difficult to become an economic superpower while being totalitarian - businesses need clear laws and guidelines in able to function and yet the judicial system in china is controlled by the government. there are no juries. the first 'law' set up in 1979 was to outline business economic practice and how chinese/foreign firms could interact. yet, as has been seen, if you introduce a 'fairer' legal system this will allow the people to challenge the government on other matters - very rarely successfully however.
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IZZY!
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#137
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China could have done much better under democratic regime. It is still quite hard to open companies in China. It takes ages. To make money and get high taxes government should have made it much easier and faster for companies to develop.
Communism doesnt and wont work, unless the country is a paradise and everyone in the country is educated and is clone of another. Without capitalist-there is no prosperity. Perhaps even the politics in Chinese government do no just want to give up their precious places, because they just like to work in a corrupt government, where they can make millions. They dont want to give freedom to other normal people to earn more money.
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fr browne
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#138
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#138
There is a new video that has been smuggled out of the country showing extreme violence against villagers in Shenyou 60 miles west of Beijing. The news report I saw said it was instigated by "thugs" who had been "hired by the government" to clear the land for a new power station.

It is said to have been the worst case of supression since Tian'nmen Square. I have only seen the video once and many images are unclear but there is some sort of raid going on with many of the raiders carrying sticks and what looks to be flashes in the background.
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