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who are the thickest people you know who got into oxbridge? (GCSE/AS GRADES)
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#81
i got AAAB at AS, 1 a* 6A 3B. I got an offer. Having the right motivation is the biggest advantage you can have i feel.
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#82
(Original post by JayJay)
i got AAAB at AS, 1 a* 6A 3B. I got an offer. Having the right motivation is the biggest advantage you can have i feel.
i got AAAB at AS, 1 a* 6A 3B. I got an offer. Having the right motivation is the biggest advantage you can have i feel.
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#84
(Original post by JayJay)
PPE at St.Peters
PPE at St.Peters
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#86
(Original post by smaug)
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
So what did this girl get in maths? A B? Does that necessarily make her "weak at maths"? Plenty of people with a few Bs apply to Oxbridge, and a significant number are accepted. I think they are looking for "overall intelligence" to a certain extent, but this does not mean straight A*s at GCSE.
I'm sorry but you just sound incredibly bitter, criticising this girl for being, "weak at maths", "not the brightest button in the box", and making her A levels "particularly easy". The tutors obviouslt saw something, a combination of intelligence and enthusiasm. Don't let it bother you.
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#87
(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
So what did this girl get in maths? A B? Does that necessarily make her "weak at maths"? Plenty of people with a few Bs apply to Oxbridge, and a significant number are accepted. I think they are looking for "overall intelligence" to a certain extent, but this does not mean straight A*s at GCSE.
I'm sorry but you just sound incredibly bitter, criticising this girl for being, "weak at maths", "not the brightest button in the box", and making her A levels "particularly easy". The tutors obviouslt saw something, a combination of intelligence and enthusiasm. Don't let it bother you.
So what did this girl get in maths? A B? Does that necessarily make her "weak at maths"? Plenty of people with a few Bs apply to Oxbridge, and a significant number are accepted. I think they are looking for "overall intelligence" to a certain extent, but this does not mean straight A*s at GCSE.
I'm sorry but you just sound incredibly bitter, criticising this girl for being, "weak at maths", "not the brightest button in the box", and making her A levels "particularly easy". The tutors obviouslt saw something, a combination of intelligence and enthusiasm. Don't let it bother you.
I agree...think he is just a bit bitter...leave him to simmer down first.
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#88
(Original post by JayJay)
anti-realism is a perfectly legitimate philosophical position
*yawn* perhaps it was this attitude that prevented you from getting in?
totally agree, thank god someone finally said it and thank god for immanuel kant- they should make reading groundwork of metaphysic or morals compulsory for all people applying to oxbridge i think.
They are looking for people who take an attitude to life of treating things as ends in themselves and not means to an end- or at the very least treating the subject in that way. I don't like all this "If i do X, I have a right to feel angry if I don'd get Y out. Sod the value of the process itself." They aren't looking for people who think they have a "right" to things. In the words of Mark Twain- The world owes you nothing. It was here first. They are looking for Kantians, are you sir, are no Kantian.
EDITED TO MAKE MORE SENSE. (
)
anti-realism is a perfectly legitimate philosophical position
*yawn* perhaps it was this attitude that prevented you from getting in?
totally agree, thank god someone finally said it and thank god for immanuel kant- they should make reading groundwork of metaphysic or morals compulsory for all people applying to oxbridge i think.
They are looking for people who take an attitude to life of treating things as ends in themselves and not means to an end- or at the very least treating the subject in that way. I don't like all this "If i do X, I have a right to feel angry if I don'd get Y out. Sod the value of the process itself." They aren't looking for people who think they have a "right" to things. In the words of Mark Twain- The world owes you nothing. It was here first. They are looking for Kantians, are you sir, are no Kantian.
EDITED TO MAKE MORE SENSE. (
)
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
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#89
(Original post by hildabeast)
Surely teleology is subjective??? Just because an individual has purpose-driven motives for doing something does not make them 'teleological' in the metaphysical sense. Somebody might do X for the purpose of achieving Y, but then do P for the love of P and not for the purpose of achieving Q. Therefore they can't have a 'telelogical character' because they are inconsistent.
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Surely teleology is subjective??? Just because an individual has purpose-driven motives for doing something does not make them 'teleological' in the metaphysical sense. Somebody might do X for the purpose of achieving Y, but then do P for the love of P and not for the purpose of achieving Q. Therefore they can't have a 'telelogical character' because they are inconsistent.
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lol - Quite bemused by all these people with really quite brilliant grades, and also a copious amount of them too, who are labelling themselves as one of the 'thick' - honestly, pretty much everyone on this forum is intelligent enough - you're all literate for a start...
and anyway, surely what's most important, is not *how* intelligent you are but *what* you do with it...
A rejection shouldn't hinder your brilliance so long as its a brilliance from within... that's as metaphysical as I get I'm afraid...
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#90
(Original post by Stewie)
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
Stewie - I'm sorry you didn't get a place but I really hope this gap year will help you to become a bit more mature. You keep demonstrating an attitute which isn't likely to get you into Oxbridge. Everyone who gets in has a good work ethic or quickly develops one and they also realise that *what* you know isn't as important as you seem to think. Anyone can read about Kant but who has the potential to develop their own ideas and take off? If you are really passionate about your subject stop attacking other people and name dropping - go off and explore it in a way that goes further than regurgitating things you have read.
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#93
Yeah. I agree with Haz as well. 'Tis an attitudinal thing. The ironic thing is- if you truly understood Kant Stewie, you wouldn't make comments the likes of which you have made throughout this thread.
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#94
(Original post by Stewie)
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
Good luck for the reapplication, but don't take it out on people who have got an offer yet don't seem to have as good grades as you.
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#95
(Original post by smaug)
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
PS- Art = not easy! If I took A-level art I'd fail! It's one of the few subjects that hard work alone cannot bring about a good grade in.
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#96
Yeah, they're lookin for potential and flare for the subject, not just vast quantities of knowledge and uber grades
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#97
(Original post by Stewie)
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
I don't have the "right" to an Oxbridge place, I felt as if I earned it for all the service I did at school, for working hard at my exams to get the A's and A*s, for three years worth of reading and study around the subject and making sacrifices on most weekends and evenings to study, for keeping a bulging binder filled with articles I cut out from newspapers and magazines on the subject out of interest and for taking the time out to do an extra GCSE in Ancient Greek so that I wouldn't have to struggle to learn it in the first year of my degree. I think that was a lot more than many other candidates who were accepted; when I went to Edinburgh to meet a professor, he offered me a place on the spot. How much of a work ethic can someone have if they spend every evening in the pub and hardly reads the newspaper let along a book? Could they really get a first for their college? This candidate I speak of couldn't even justify his philosophical position of God (although Keith Ward did in the last chapter of "God: A Guide For The Perplexed"), but blindly came out with the statement and mentioned nothing of Kant, etc.
"Cos', yeah, right.....I'm an atheist, cos' I'm rational about it..."
I learned a lot from this whole Oxbridge experience, and there are people in Oxbridge who don't know who Kant is, never mind Kantians. I honestly beleive I have a passion for my subject no-one can ever take away from me or tell me I don't have, with a work ethic and grades to prove it, and at the end of the days isn't that all Oxbridge asks? I don't think I could have done anything more to have shown this. The people who really shouldn't be in Oxbridge will probably not make their offers or will fail the first year exams, though there are few of them who do. I will re-apply because I know I was robbed and was more than suited to the course (I wrote to some DOS and got a really nice reply from Clare telling me this) and am just looking forward to having the best gap year ever....this rejection this time around could possibly be the best thing that has ever happened as as soon as I collect my A-Levels (I'm predicted 3A's), I can have a glorious extended holiday as well as earning some money...alsmost everyone else will be chucked back into the education system again! There was a girl from my school who was an excellent Theology candidate who got rejected from Newnham and got it when re-applying; I know I should do this to because Oxbridge will be missing out on a candidate as passionate and committed as me.
Stewie, if you have such passion for the subject you should not feel so agreived that you put all this extra work in.. i absolutely adore English, therefore read expanisvely all the time, i am not doing this to get in Cam but for the passion in my subject. The way you put it is that the only reason you did more was to get in Cam, maybe the interviewers spotted that?
The love of your subject should have motivated yoou to work.... not to just get in Cambridge.
Those people you speak of, fine if they don't really have a passion etc they will get 2:2... however you go to a top uni and get a first honours.. theres the big difference.. If you constantly keep looking back at why you didn't get in, how unfair it is, you will never completely move on and enjoy the subject.
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#98
i think that it is absolutely ridiculous that people get rejected from oxbridge with impeccable GCSE results, predicted grades, references and personal statement, written oxbridge entrance exams, in favour of those who do only averagely at GCSEs etc.
The oxbridge selection procedure should not revolve entirely around a subjective 20 minute interview - this is not a rigorous or fair method of selecting the best canditates...
The oxbridge selection procedure should not revolve entirely around a subjective 20 minute interview - this is not a rigorous or fair method of selecting the best canditates...
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#99
(Original post by TomB2000)
i think that it is absolutely ridiculous that people get rejected from oxbridge with impeccable GCSE results, predicted grades, references and personal statement, written oxbridge entrance exams, in favour of those who do only averagely at GCSEs etc.
The oxbridge selection procedure should not revolve entirely around a subjective 20 minute interview - this is not a rigorous or fair method of selecting the best canditates...
i think that it is absolutely ridiculous that people get rejected from oxbridge with impeccable GCSE results, predicted grades, references and personal statement, written oxbridge entrance exams, in favour of those who do only averagely at GCSEs etc.
The oxbridge selection procedure should not revolve entirely around a subjective 20 minute interview - this is not a rigorous or fair method of selecting the best canditates...
But an Oxbridge degree is not a GCSE, and people who are suited to do well at GCSE may not cope so well at Oxbridge.
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#100
Originally Posted by smaug
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
umm...i take art A level and i really resent what you said about it. It's certainly not easy, it involves a huge written and research component as well as hours and hours of work...it easily dwarves the workload of my other subjects, and at my school its widely regarded as one of the hardest to do.another good thing about art is that it involves looking at the world around you...obviously something you need to start doing. don't criticize things that you clearly know nothing about.
Exactly the point I am making, in answer to the original thread. However I think the fact that she also made her A level learning load particularly easy by choosing art, and a subject where her mother could help , suggests she was far from the brightest button in the button box!
Being weak at maths is not in itself detrimental to language learning skills, but an oxford degree tends to be seen by employers as a measure of overall high ability, when it is not! I believe oxford should be clear about this. If theyre not looking for overall intelligence but simply a high level of skill and interest in individual subjects then they should make that clear because it would encourage a lot more people to apply who would probably be intimidated from doing so at present because they dont feel theyre clever enough!
umm...i take art A level and i really resent what you said about it. It's certainly not easy, it involves a huge written and research component as well as hours and hours of work...it easily dwarves the workload of my other subjects, and at my school its widely regarded as one of the hardest to do.another good thing about art is that it involves looking at the world around you...obviously something you need to start doing. don't criticize things that you clearly know nothing about.
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