Who should pay for higher education? Watch

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Craig Fothergil
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#1
I need to write 2000-3000 words on this, and I am plumbing the depths of aua for thoughts. First
problem is that as a mathmo I dont know how to structure an essay at all. Already 2000 words seems
like a monster amount.

My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral argument
really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).

Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.

Cheers AUA,

Craig

PS This plea doesnt go out to you, Gregory Humanitas
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Cynical Chris
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"Craig Fothergill" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> I need to write 2000-3000 words on this, and I am plumbing the depths of aua for thoughts. First[/q1]
[q1]> problem is that as a mathmo I dont know how to structure an essay at all. Already 2000 words seems[/q1]
[q1]> like a monster amount.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral argument[/q1]
[q1]> really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q1]

It should all be freee freeeee freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !

Damn, why do they mandate me to always go with union policy?

Chris.
0
Matthew Huntbac
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Craig Fothergill ([email protected]) wrote:

[q1]> My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral argument[/q1]
[q1]> really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q1]

Yes, so who are the people who benefit from Higher Education? Surely we all benefit from having
educated people in our society. It would be silly, for example, to suggest that the only people who
benefit from having doctors in our society are the doctors themselves.

Matthew Huntbach
0
Steven H
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"Cynical Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Craig Fothergill" <[email protected] > wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q2]> > I need to write 2000-3000 words on this, and I am plumbing the depths of aua for thoughts. First[/q2]
[q2]> > problem is that as a mathmo I dont know how to structure an essay at all. Already 2000 words[/q2]
[q2]> > seems like a monster amount.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral[/q2]
[q2]> > argument really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It should all be freee freeeee freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Damn, why do they mandate me to always go with union policy?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Chris.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Students - for the rest of their lives ?

Steve
0
Becky Loader
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"Craig Fothergill" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[q1]> Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q1]

This won't be much help to you at all, but anyway:

I was asked by my conditional firm offer how I'm going to finance my study there, so I duly sent
back the form telling them that I was expecting a loan from the LEA. Last week, I received a phone
call telling me that that would leave a shortfall of about £1,000 (the maximum loan being £3900 and
the projected maintenance costs totalling about £5000) and asking how I planned to find the extra
money. Luckily, I have savings of some several thousand pounds from working this year, so it's not a
problem for me, but I couldn't help wondering what the outcome would have been if I couldn't have
found that money. Admittedly, I was asked the question because I'm 21 and mature students are more
likely to have that sort of money available, but in general that sort of thing would be prohibitive.
If the difference between the amount of loan available and the amount needed to live on is so great,
isn't something amiss?

Incidentally, my great plan is to live on my savings for as long as I can (hopefully two terms at
least), before dipping in to the student loan, which will have been languishing in a high-interest
account until then. I used to really hate the practice of taking out unneeded student loans purely
to make a bit of money - and I still do, if it's rich kids doing that - but as I already have a
£4500 debt to the SLC from my aborted stint at university (you have to keep a sense of humour,
really) I'm trying to recoup what I can. The eventual hope is that I can leave university with no
more than £14,000 of debt, compared with the £12,000 I'd anticipate having if I'd completed three
years straight off.

Becky
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Becky Loader
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"Becky Loader" <[email protected] com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>

Sorry, at the end of this post was meant to be this link to an article I was reading this morning:
http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...747357,00.html, which might be of some use.

Becky
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Cynical Chris
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"Steven H" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Cynical Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > "Craig Fothergill" <[email protected] > wrote in message[/q2]
[q2]> > news:[email protected]...[/q2]
[q3]> > > I need to write 2000-3000 words on this, and I am plumbing the depths of aua for thoughts.[/q3]
[q3]> > > First problem is that as a mathmo I dont know how to structure an essay at all. Already 2000[/q3]
[q3]> > > words seems like a monster amount.[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q3]> > > My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral[/q3]
[q3]> > > argument really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q3]> > > Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > It should all be freee freeeee freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ![/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Damn, why do they mandate me to always go with union policy?[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Chris.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Students - for the rest of their lives ?[/q1]

That's the plan - working my way up the political ladder - union president in a couple of years
methinks

Chris.
0
Craig Fothergil
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[q2]>> My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral argument[/q2]
[q2]>> really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Yes, so who are the people who benefit from Higher Education? Surely we all benefit from having[/q1]
[q1]>educated people in our society. It would be silly, for example, to suggest that the only people who[/q1]
[q1]>benefit from having doctors in our society are the doctors themselves.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Matthew Huntbach[/q1]

I quite agree. But that leaves about 1500 words left to write...!

Craig
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Craig Fothergil
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[q1]>Sorry, at the end of this post was meant to be this link to an article I[/q1]
was
[q1]>reading this morning: http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...747357,00.html,[/q1]
[q1]>which might be of some use.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Becky[/q1]

Thanks Becky. Not bad for a raving lefty. ;-)

Craig
0
Flexiblegoat
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On 1 Jul 2002 13:48:31 -0700, [email protected] (Craig Fothergill) wrote:

[q1]>I need to write 2000-3000 words on this, and I am plumbing the depths of aua for thoughts. First[/q1]
[q1]>problem is that as a mathmo I dont know how to structure an essay at all. Already 2000 words seems[/q1]
[q1]>like a monster amount.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>My line so far is that the people who benefit from HE should be the ones to pay (a moral argument[/q1]
[q1]>really, so i just sort of stated it and plan on moving to a social-issues debate).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Cheers AUA,[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Craig[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>PS This plea doesnt go out to you, Gregory Humanitas[/q1]

Mate,

1. (introduction even) Funding HE is a huge problem and ra ra ra (spin it out as far as poss).

2. solution 1

3. solution 2

4. solution 3

5. your preferred and why its best (conclusion).

Works for me.

paul

if you don't come back you know i'll have to starve to death 'cos i ain't had a kiss all day
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Richard Magrath
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#11
[email protected] (Flexiblegoat) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] ternet.com>...

[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >Anyway, some help on structure, and sensible thoughts on the issue in general would be great.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]

This is how I'd structure a response if I were given it as a General Studies question, for example:

Introduction: "The cost of HE is one of the most controversial issues amongst young people of our
time", etc., with a brief recount of the history of HE funding (abolishing of grants, introducing of
fees) and briefly touch upon why this is controversial in the eyes of students, the main student
arguments and so on (i.e. why should MPs abolish grants/introduce fees when they themselves did not
face these costs?).

Your opinion: Go something like (1) what your opinion is ("I think students should have to pay
the full cost of HE because they're only going to spend the money on crack and anoraks
otherwise"), (2) briefly note the political idea that has influenced you ("I agree with the
Marxist theory of politics, and think this can be applied successfully to the issue at hand") or
just say that as a mathmatician you are taking a logical approach to the matter. Finally, (3)
what is good about your opinion.

Other arguments: Bring in other peoples' opinions on the matter that contrast with yours, and
confront them one by one ("what these critics are overlooking however is...". Occasionally reaffirm
your opinion simply so that you don't lose track of the argument.

Real world: Bring in some real world examples. In your particular essay you might want to refer to
other countries education systems or the UK system in the past. You're not going to be asked to
defend your ideas on Radio 2 or anything, so don't overly concern yourself with facts. Obviously,
don't start making anything up or intentionally forgetting something important, but don't bog your
essay down with figures (though some figures are good) or worry if the figures don't conclusively
support your argument. You are dealing with ideas, you can afford to be a little bit idealised -
think of Karl Marx, for example. Generally get across the impression that systems similar to yours
are good and ones dissimilar are bad, though be sure to acknowledge good aspects of dissimilar
systems for the sake of balance. For example, that the drastic change in HE funding in the UK is
connected to the massive increase in the number of students, and that the old system might not
necessarily work anymore in practice (though it can still be useful for ideas).

Conclusion: Be modest. Your theory/system/opinion/whatever has its faults, but it is preferable to
system X (which might be the current system, or the system in another country, etc.). Some minor
sacrifices will have to be made, but in the end everything will be better. Perhaps single out the
major opponent of your theory - government policy, ignorance, anti-intellectual predjudice, human
nature, the decline of Western civilisation, whatever - and subtly imply that this is all that
really needs to be overcome for your brilliant theory to flourish.

Last sentence: It's always good for the last sentence to be poetic. Think of Marx ("working men of
all countries unite!"). Sum up all that you've done before, and end on an optimistic, or at least
positive, note. Be immodest. It should have almost a soundbite quality to it, offering a so-simple
and seemingly-easy solution in one single sentence. And, of course, it is tied in with your original
statement of opinion from the beginning of the essay.

Hope this helps somehow!

Rich
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Craig Fothergil
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[q1]> Mate,[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> 1. (introduction even) Funding HE is a huge problem and ra ra ra (spin it out as far as poss).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> 2. solution 1[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> 3. solution 2[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> 4. solution 3[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> 5. your preferred and why its best (conclusion).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Works for me.[/q1]

Tremendous. Thank you.

Craig
0
Matthew Huntbac
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Richard Magrath ([email protected]) wrote:

[q1]> This is how I'd structure a response if I were given it as a General Studies question, for[/q1]
[q1]> example:[/q1]

[q1]> Introduction: "The cost of HE is one of the most controversial issues amongst young people of our[/q1]
[q1]> time", etc., with a brief recount of the history of HE funding (abolishing of grants, introducing[/q1]
[q1]> of fees) and briefly touch upon why this is controversial in the eyes of students, the main[/q1]
[q1]> student arguments and so on (i.e. why should MPs abolish grants/introduce fees when they[/q1]
[q1]> themselves did not face these costs?).[/q1]

You seem to have missed out the main reason, which is that people don't like paying taxes. The
reason why MPs abolished grants is that elections in recent years have been about tax more than
anything else, with the party that can show the greatest commitment to keeping tax down winning. If
you are going to keep taxes down, you have to keep government spending down, so you cut things that
few people care about - like student grants.

Matthew Huntbach
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