Religious Assembly in schools

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Roland Watson
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I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in my Glasgow school in the late
1960s.

Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and beyond(if
at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose christian worship
in their remit?

Thanks,

Roland Watson.
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Robert
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On 2 Jul 2002 08:59:48 -0700, [email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:

[q1]>I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in my Glasgow school in the late[/q1]
[q1]>1960s.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and beyond(if[/q1]
[q1]>at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose christian[/q1]
[q1]>worship in their remit?[/q1]

It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.

Non denominational schools that have religious assemblies must allow parents the right to withdraw
their children if they wish.

I wouldn't envisage denominational schools having the problem of pupils wanting to withdraw, why opt
for denominational itherwise?

In practice most non denominational schools now have multi cultural assemblies.
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Gareth Jones
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[email protected] k (Robert) wrote:

[q2]>>Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and beyond(if[/q2]
[q2]>>at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose christian[/q2]
[q2]>>worship in their remit?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Non denominational schools that have religious assemblies must allow parents the right to withdraw[/q1]
[q1]>their children if they wish.[/q1]

I think all schools have to allow this. Certainly the prospectus from the local C of E schools says
parents have a statutory right to withdraw their children.

[q1]>I wouldn't envisage denominational schools having the problem of pupils wanting to withdraw, why[/q1]
[q1]>opt for denominational itherwise?[/q1]

Because there are other factors to consider when choosing a school
i.e. the denominational one might be the nearest / best / whatever school in the area.

[q1]>In practice most non denominational schools now have multi cultural assemblies.[/q1]

Which is not, by any means, the same as non-religious assemblies.

Gareth
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Roland Watson
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[email protected] k (Robert) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] serve.net>...
[q1]> On 2 Jul 2002 08:59:48 -0700, [email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in my Glasgow school in the late[/q2]
[q2]> >1960s.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and[/q2]
[q2]> >beyond(if at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose[/q2]
[q2]> >christian worship in their remit?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Thanks,

So a headmaster (?) today could at his discretion direct the staff to always say the Lord's Prayer
at assembly time? Nothing in principle is banned like in the USA where school prayer was forbidden
years ago?

Roland.
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Roland Watson
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[email protected] k (Robert) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] serve.net>...
[q1]> On 2 Jul 2002 08:59:48 -0700, [email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in my Glasgow school in the late[/q2]
[q2]> >1960s.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and[/q2]
[q2]> >beyond(if at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose[/q2]
[q2]> >christian worship in their remit?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Thanks,

So a headmaster (?) today could at his discretion direct the staff to always say the Lord's Prayer
at assembly time? Nothing in principle is banned like in the USA where school prayer was forbidden
years ago?

Roland.
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Roland Watson
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[email protected] k (Robert) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] serve.net>...
[q1]> On 2 Jul 2002 08:59:48 -0700, [email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in my Glasgow school in the late[/q2]
[q2]> >1960s.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and[/q2]
[q2]> >beyond(if at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose[/q2]
[q2]> >christian worship in their remit?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Thanks,

So a headmaster (?) today could at his discretion direct the staff to always say the Lord's Prayer
at assembly time? Nothing in principle is banned like in the USA where school prayer was forbidden
years ago?

Roland.
0
Robert
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On Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:58:12 GMT, Gareth Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[email protected] uk (Robert) wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q3]>>>Can anyone tell me what the status of that is now and when it was banned in Scotland and[/q3]
[q3]>>>beyond(if at all?). Can I presume the Roman Catholic and Anglican schools are free to impose[/q3]
[q3]>>>christian worship in their remit?[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>It hasn't been "banned in Scotland." However not all schools have assemblies.[/q2]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>Non denominational schools that have religious assemblies must allow parents the right to withdraw[/q2]
[q2]>>their children if they wish.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I think all schools have to allow this. Certainly the prospectus from the local C of E schools says[/q1]
[q1]>parents have a statutory right to withdraw their children.[/q1]

I guess you didn't read the original post. There are no Church of England schools in Scotland.
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>I wouldn't envisage denominational schools having the problem of pupils wanting to withdraw, why[/q2]
[q2]>>opt for denominational itherwise?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Because there are other factors to consider when choosing a school[/q1]
[q1]>i.e. the denominational one might be the nearest / best / whatever school in the area.[/q1]

Denominational school in Scotland is not the same as in England. In Scotland the denominational
schools are allRoman Catholic.
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>In practice most non denominational schools now have multi cultural assemblies.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Which is not, by any means, the same as non-religious assemblies.[/q1]

No one said they were, in fact they are religious.

Like many other posters to UK education, you assume UK is England, it's not.
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Robert
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On 3 Jul 2002 09:33:59 -0700, [email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:

[q1]>So a headmaster (?) today could at his discretion direct the staff to always say the Lord's Prayer[/q1]
[q1]>at assembly time? Nothing in principle is banned like in the USA where school prayer was forbidden[/q1]
[q1]>years ago?[/q1]

Well the assemblies are normally conducted by the school chaplain. If the Lord's prayer forms part
of his service those who wish to will join in and those who don't won't.

It's a bit like you being in the staff room on a Friday morning and the Head appears and presents
someone with a leaving present and says "let's show our appreciation" and starts clapping. Those who
liked the person will join in. Those who thought he/she was just a waste of space and are glad to
see the back of them will sit on their hands.
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Gareth Jones
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[email protected] k (Robert) wrote:

[q3]>>>Non denominational schools that have religious assemblies must allow parents the right to[/q3]
[q3]>>>withdraw their children if they wish.[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>I think all schools have to allow this. Certainly the prospectus from the local C of E schools[/q2]
[q2]>>says parents have a statutory right to withdraw their children.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I guess you didn't read the original post. There are no Church of England schools in Scotland.[/q1]

Nor church of Scotland schools in England for me to check with. I used my local C of E school as the
nearest handy denominational school. I made an assumption that the rules would be the same in
England and Scotland...are they different? Is there no statutory right to withdraw children from
religious assemblies in Scotland?

[q3]>>>I wouldn't envisage denominational schools having the problem of pupils wanting to withdraw, why[/q3]
[q3]>>>opt for denominational itherwise?[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>Because there are other factors to consider when choosing a school[/q2]
[q2]>>i.e. the denominational one might be the nearest / best / whatever school in the area.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Denominational school in Scotland is not the same as in England. In Scotland the denominational[/q1]
[q1]>schools are allRoman Catholic.[/q1]

I didn't know that. I'm curious - why are there no Church of Scotland, or Episcopal C of S schools
in Scotland? Doesn't St. Mary's in Dunblane count? (http://www.st-marys-dunblane.org.uk/).

[q3]>>>In practice most non denominational schools now have multi cultural assemblies.[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>Which is not, by any means, the same as non-religious assemblies.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>No one said they were, in fact they are religious.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Like many other posters to UK education, you assume UK is England, it's not.[/q1]

I make no such assumption. Perhaps you assume that someone who lives in England can't see beyond its
borders, whereas in fact, many of us were not only born beyond them, but lived beyond them for quite
some time.

Gareth
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Robert
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On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:24:15 GMT, Gareth Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Nor church of Scotland schools in England for me to check with. I used my local C of E school as[/q1]
[q1]>the nearest handy denominational school. I made an assumption that the rules would be the same in[/q1]
[q1]>England and Scotland...are they different? Is there no statutory right to withdraw children from[/q1]
[q1]>religious assemblies in Scotland?[/q1]

Yes, see my previous posting.

[q1]>I didn't know that. I'm curious - why are there no Church of Scotland, or Episcopal C of S schools[/q1]
[q1]>in Scotland? Doesn't St. Mary's in Dunblane count? (http://www.st-marys-dunblane.org.uk/).[/q1]

No there are no Church of Scotland schools.

St. Mary's is one exception (you had to trawl the net to find it) it is run by the Episcopal church.

There is no such thing as the Episcopal Church of Scotland. You probably mean the Episopal Church
in Scotland.

If you had gone beyond the homepage, you would have found out why it is an exception and the fact
that it won't be for long.
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User 1951
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On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:19:31 GMT, Gareth Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[email protected] (Roland Watson) wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>So a headmaster (?) today could at his discretion direct the staff to always say the Lord's Prayer[/q2]
[q2]>>at assembly time? Nothing in principle is banned like in the USA where school prayer was forbidden[/q2]
[q2]>>years ago?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>It is banned in the USA because they have a constitutional seperation between church and state.[/q1]
[q1]>Here the opposite is the case - we have an established church....[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Gareth[/q1]

A headmaster or possibly even a head teacher would be lacking in discretion if he or she tried it
because of course staff are under no obligation to *attend* religious assemblies, nor are pupils.

Naturally I don't mind if the head insists on me reciting the Koran in assembly as I have not
attended one for 21 years

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Unregistered
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When I was a child, we always used to say the Lord's prayer in assembly and we prayed over our food at lunch times. When I have helped in primary schools, I have always encouraged and led the children in a prayer at the end of the school day. I personally feel that the main focus of religious education should be on Christianity - and most of the assemblies in England have a strong emphasis on Christian based themes. Parents have the right to withdraw children from assemblies, but most of the children who are withdrawn from assemblies are those from Jehovah Witness backgrounds. Most parents are only too happy to allow their children to stay in for assemblies which must be 'wholly of a Christian nature.'
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In the 1980s, when I was in school, they had religious assembleys every day except for the 6th form. That was (I believe) twice per week. Non-attendance was frowned upon.

I remember the music teacher played an electronic organ and the headmaster conducted (in the 6th form).

On one occasion, he started the hymn and only he and maybe one or two others sang. Everybody else just mimed. Somehow, he wasn't very impressed and demanded that we all sang. As nobody (obviously) cared for religious assembleys, we all wondered why he bothered us with them.

I suspect that if headmasters up and down the land ceased religious assembleys, two things would happen:

1. There'd be an extra 30 minutes teaching time in the timetable.
2. Nobody would miss the nonsense of pretending to sing.
3. Religion would be observed by those who wish to observe it and not forced upon those that don't. I believe this is called "freedom".

R
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