The TSR Islamic Society Watch

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PapeeChumo
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#221
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#221
So are we official? do we have a icon? We should!
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Zuber
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#222
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#222
Hello i would like to join as well.
Also on the point of Hijabs, i do not believe that they are obligatory. If you look particularly at the reasons WHY Prophet Muhammad introduced the hijab, those reasons are not existant anymore (well, very rarely). In the Prophet's time, women weren't treated with any respect at all, and those who were attractive at all were forced to go into prostitution (in a way - prostitution was slightly different back then). You could call it rape i guess. However today that doesnt really occur (and the instances in which it does occur, 90% of the time the woman is dress very provocativally).
Therefore i feel a Muslim woman, or any woman should just simply dress modestly.
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Zuber
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#223
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#223
Something else i would like to mention - this is the muslim teaching of haram and halal.
Something is haram if the cons outweigh the pros
Something if halal if the pros outweigh the cons
This is a belief that i trully agree with, not just for religious reasons. It is just simple common sense. But then certain questions arise. Such as the problem of alcohol. It has been proven that a very small intake of alcohol each day (e.g. 1 glass of wine) in fact helps your heart. And if a person can indeed control themselves and only have 1 glass of wine each day, is it haram or halal? i mean, they are not getting drunk, or damaging their bodies, so really, where is the cons? some will argue that by simply drinking one glass, you are tempting yourself too much and one day it will be easier for you to get drunk. But to that i say simply that temptation is a good thing. Without it how can anyone believe in God?
This same logic applies to the eating of pork. Pigs are the filthiest animals - role around in their own piss and ****. Also i remember learning all the diseases that pigs have, e.g. the tapeworm - taenia solium. And i believe that this is the reason why pork is haram. However, if a pig was raised correctly and cleanly, and given veggie food, and was eradicated of disease, would it be halal?
I think these points are worth pondering about.

EDIT: i think pigs are also haram because they eat more or less anything. Hence i also added "give veggie food"
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eurasianfeline
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#224
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#224
(Original post by Zuber)
Also can people check out the society i formed yesterday. Its called the "Anti-Religion Society". http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t122630.html
I know what it sounds like, but i am not against religion. Its just that i feel religion creates divide between people, and basically i hope to try and correct this in some small way. (btw, it is NOT an atheist society.)
Everyone and anyone is welcome. Even people who disagree with me - then we could get a good debate/discussion going on!
if you want a debate/discussion, there's D&D for it.
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Viper
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#225
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#225
Can i join?

Whats the punishment with regard to fornication in Islam? And does this apply to a non-Muslim?
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Zuber
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#226
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#226
No one has yet replied on the matters i put forward in posts 222 and 223. i am very impatient.
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zaaks786
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#227
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#227
(Original post by Zuber)
Something else i would like to mention - this is the muslim teaching of haram and halal.
Something is haram if the cons outweigh the pros
Something if halal if the pros outweigh the cons
This is a belief that i trully agree with, not just for religious reasons. It is just simple common sense. But then certain questions arise. Such as the problem of alcohol. It has been proven that a very small intake of alcohol each day (e.g. 1 glass of wine) in fact helps your heart. And if a person can indeed control themselves and only have 1 glass of wine each day, is it haram or halal? i mean, they are not getting drunk, or damaging their bodies, so really, where is the cons? some will argue that by simply drinking one glass, you are tempting yourself too much and one day it will be easier for you to get drunk. But to that i say simply that temptation is a good thing. Without it how can anyone believe in God?
This same logic applies to the eating of pork. Pigs are the filthiest animals - role around in their own piss and ****. Also i remember learning all the diseases that pigs have, e.g. the tapeworm - taenia solium. And i believe that this is the reason why pork is haram. However, if a pig was raised correctly and cleanly, and given veggie food, and was eradicated of disease, would it be halal?
I think these points are worth pondering about.

EDIT: i think pigs are also haram because they eat more or less anything. Hence i also added "give veggie food"
Okay, fair enuff, but in islam things are haram mainly due to the benefits of not taking them , rather then this is wrong, dont do it, yeas a litle alcohol is okay, but how many ppl can jus take a litle and let that be enuff?!?!not many, hence alcoholics etc. and pigs are haam cos they are filthy....but if anyone does raise pigs up cleanly etc, tell me cos i aint seen it happen and doubt that it will. Rules were not put theyre just cos they were, if something is not gud for you is it best not to avoid that and steer clear...i think ull find that with a lil commen sense that is the right thing to do...

Also on Hijab, yes at the prophets(pbuh) time women wer not treated well but under islam they were, Islam offers women an elevated place in society which no1 else does and the Quraan is just as relevant now as it was then. So if Hijab and modest dressing was done then then it also has its benefits now.I wear Hijab and im can see that it benefits me in evryway and it was my own choice to wear.

ill put more later

Wa Salaam
Xxx
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Zuber
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#228
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#228
(Original post by zaaks786)
Okay, fair enuff, but in islam things are haram mainly due to the benefits of not taking them , rather then this is wrong, dont do it, yeas a litle alcohol is okay, but how many ppl can jus take a litle and let that be enuff?!?!not many, hence alcoholics etc. and pigs are haam cos they are filthy....but if anyone does raise pigs up cleanly etc, tell me cos i aint seen it happen and doubt that it will. Rules were not put theyre just cos they were, if something is not gud for you is it best not to avoid that and steer clear...i think ull find that with a lil commen sense that is the right thing to do...
Thanks for the reply zaaks.
Firstly, you say "Rules were not put theyre just cos they were, if something is not gud for you is it best not to avoid that and steer clear...i think ull find that with a lil commen sense that is the right thing to do..." and this shows me that you really didnt read my post very well.
The first things i said were:
"Something is haram if the cons outweigh the pros
Something if halal if the pros outweigh the cons
This is a belief that i trully agree with, not just for religious reasons. It is just simple common sense."
Anyway, i know that no-one i KNOW raises pigs up cleanly and so on, but i was talking more hypothetically. If someone did, i am certain that most Muslim would still consider it haram.
And about the alcohol, i do conceed to the point that not many people can take a little and stop. However this is temptation winning once again. I believe with enough faith, i could tomorrow go and drink 1 glass of wine and stop. I know also that if i did that, my parents would be EXTREMELY angry with me, and many people would disagree with me. Also i think having MORE temptation can be a good thing. It really helps to reinforce your faith. It is in the face of adversity that our faith can take a leap. So really you would be being a better muslim (in some odd twisted way!)!!! lol. point kinda trailed off there.....

"Also on Hijab, yes at the prophets(pbuh) time women wer not treated well but under islam they were, Islam offers women an elevated place in society which no1 else does and the Quraan is just as relevant now as it was then. So if Hijab and modest dressing was done then then it also has its benefits now.I wear Hijab and im can see that it benefits me in evryway and it was my own choice to wear."

Completely agree. I do think that the Hijab does have its benefits today. However the point i was trying to make was just that i dont think it is obligatory, seeing as the MAIN benefit is out of the window. Change is ongoing, and i do think we need to change with it. but thats not saying that the quran isnt as relevant - it still is. However there are some modern issues that havent been clarified in the qu'ran. I will post an example of this very shortly
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zaaks786
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#229
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#229
(Original post by Zuber)
Thanks for the reply zaaks.
Firstly, you say "Rules were not put theyre just cos they were, if something is not gud for you is it best not to avoid that and steer clear...i think ull find that with a lil commen sense that is the right thing to do..." and this shows me that you really didnt read my post very well.
The first things i said were:
"Something is haram if the cons outweigh the pros
Something if halal if the pros outweigh the cons
This is a belief that i trully agree with, not just for religious reasons. It is just simple common sense."
Anyway, i know that no-one i KNOW raises pigs up cleanly and so on, but i was talking more hypothetically. If someone did, i am certain that most Muslim would still consider it haram.
And about the alcohol, i do conceed to the point that not many people can take a little and stop. However this is temptation winning once again. I believe with enough faith, i could tomorrow go and drink 1 glass of wine and stop. I know also that if i did that, my parents would be EXTREMELY angry with me, and many people would disagree with me. Also i think having MORE temptation can be a good thing. It really helps to reinforce your faith. It is in the face of adversity that our faith can take a leap. So really you would be being a better muslim (in some odd twisted way!)!!! lol. point kinda trailed off there.....

"Also on Hijab, yes at the prophets(pbuh) time women wer not treated well but under islam they were, Islam offers women an elevated place in society which no1 else does and the Quraan is just as relevant now as it was then. So if Hijab and modest dressing was done then then it also has its benefits now.I wear Hijab and im can see that it benefits me in evryway and it was my own choice to wear."

Completely agree. I do think that the Hijab does have its benefits today. However the point i was trying to make was just that i dont think it is obligatory, seeing as the MAIN benefit is out of the window. Change is ongoing, and i do think we need to change with it. but thats not saying that the quran isnt as relevant - it still is. However there are some modern issues that havent been clarified in the qu'ran. I will post an example of this very shortly


Very true in times of hardship or wen under most temptation faith does become stronger. yes maybe u cud go drink one glass and know that ull stop but i dnt think alot of ppl could do the same hence the ruling against alcohol, its just so ppl dont get carried away and altho sum ppl have enuf strength to say no after one glass, majority cant help but keep going.

thts wat i like about islam, alot of it is for ur benefit, not soething u just do because at the end of the day Allah is all knowing and even if we cant see that it is doing us good in the long term it probably is.

The Quraan does not need to be changed according to the views of today(not tht u said it did, im just saying), i think that the Quraan along with looking at how the prophet(pbuh) acted is enuff for us to go on...
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bengal_tiger
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#230
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#230
The Quraan does not need to be changed according to the views of today(not tht u said it did, im just saying), i think that the Quraan along with looking at how the prophet(pbuh) acted is enuff for us to go on...
im not that sure its true, of course no man could rewrite the Qur'an im not suggesting that but im suggesting the texts need to be examined in a different way, all these arguments are between the liberals and the hardline, for example on music, some say its ok some say its haram,

The Qu'ran was perfect for the time in which it was written, it gave rights to groups where lawlessness was common practice, like women and children, however those that take the Qur'an literrally take different viewpoints then others,

i myself turned my back on Islam about 4 years ago and only returned when i realised that Islam teaches good and that its the people who supposedly follow it that cause problems within our own community and the world ,

referring to the alcohol issue i cant personally see a problem with a person drinking one glass of wine, someone once told me that life is about intention with good intention being the most important thing. I agree with this view so if u intend to drink one glass of wine go ahead as long as u dont harm others i cant see a problem.

I think the law was introduced because people were getting hammered, therefore if alcohol makes you lose ur normal sense dont consume it in my opinion
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Abbas6
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#231
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#231
(Original post by bengal_tiger)
referring to the alcohol issue i cant personally see a problem with a person drinking one glass of wine, someone once told me that life is about intention with good intention being the most important thing. I agree with this view so if u intend to drink one glass of wine go ahead as long as u dont harm others i cant see a problem.

I think the law was introduced because people were getting hammered, therefore if alcohol makes you lose ur normal sense dont consume it in my opinion
The thing is in Islam we derive the laws and rules from the Holy Qur'an. The Quran says for example "Establish prayer" but the Quran does not say how we ought to pray Salah, and the do's and don'ts. For these we turn to the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The Qur'an stricly forbids the consumption of intoxicants, because of the obvious harm posed by alcohol for example. In a hadith the Prophet was reported to have said that if something is forbidden in large amounts, then it is is forbideen in small amounts or quantities aswell (i.e. drinking would still be haram whether you had a pint, two three whatever).

Wassalam

Abbas

p.s. on the issue of the Islamic Society becoming official, I contacted one of the admins and got the following reply:

We're not adding any more logos at present.
which I thought was quite ambiguous. So I sent another message, and have not heard anything since...

UPDATE!!!
TSR is undergoing a software upgrade soon, so no new usergroups will be created until then.
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bengal_tiger
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#232
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#232
oh my god, i thought Saudi was conservative but this is almost barbaric? a womans name is never mentioned in public? why not?

This is disgraceful, the nation of the birth of Islam basicly removes women from all aspects of social, political and economic view, isnt that what Hitler did with the jewish community?

Women are equal? that is the biggest joke ive ever heard, im am unhappy with the treatment women get in britain but this is ridiculous?

are there any opinions that actually support the feminist movement in saudi or is likely to be the status quo for the future
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zaaks786
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#233
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#233
(Original post by bengal_tiger)
oh my god, i thought Saudi was conservative but this is almost barbaric? a womans name is never mentioned in public? why not?

This is disgraceful, the nation of the birth of Islam basicly removes women from all aspects of social, political and economic view, isnt that what Hitler did with the jewish community?

Women are equal? that is the biggest joke ive ever heard, im am unhappy with the treatment women get in britain but this is ridiculous?

are there any opinions that actually support the feminist movement in saudi or is likely to be the status quo for the future

I do agreee...quite barbaric, but are u saying that theses things are due to islam?just because sum corrupt country who claims its muslim becos it follows a few rules....it is not a completely islamic country, it just claims to be the saudi rulers are corrupt to the core....basically this is not an attribute of islam.
Wa Salaam
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bengal_tiger
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#234
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#234
can someone please restore my faith in humanity? all i ever hear is "terrorist story here" women being mistreated here, it seems endless and i cant see past the hypocrisy of mankind
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Abbas6
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#235
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#235
(Original post by zaaks786)
I do agreee...quite barbaric, but are u saying that theses things are due to islam?just because sum corrupt country who claims its muslim becos it follows a few rules....it is not a completely islamic country, it just claims to be the saudi rulers are corrupt to the core....basically this is not an attribute of islam.
Wa Salaam
:ditto:
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zaaks786
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#236
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#236
(Original post by bengal_tiger)
can someone please restore my faith in humanity? all i ever hear is "terrorist story here" women being mistreated here, it seems endless and i cant see past the hypocrisy of mankind
restore your faith.....you need to look at the gud things that humanity does...charity work and adopting orpans...helping your fellow man.
In Islam....Just greeting you fellow man with a smile is a charity

There is a lot of hipocrasy in the world today but we need to think wat can we do u make the world a better place,not just for us but for generations to come.......make a change, give a lil love!!!!
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Dimez
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#237
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#237
i would like to join the islamic society, may i?
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Zuber
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#238
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#238
(Original post by Abbas6)
The thing is in Islam we derive the laws and rules from the Holy Qur'an. The Quran says for example "Establish prayer" but the Quran does not say how we ought to pray Salah, and the do's and don'ts. For these we turn to the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The Qur'an stricly forbids the consumption of intoxicants, because of the obvious harm posed by alcohol for example. In a hadith the Prophet was reported to have said that if something is forbidden in large amounts, then it is is forbideen in small amounts or quantities aswell (i.e. drinking would still be haram whether you had a pint, two three whatever).
Abbas, i believe that the only problem with this is that as people have pointed, this is more a rule for the majority - as drinking in small amounts would lead to more and more drinking. But then the minority do lose out. I mean, when i was talking about drinking very little, i wasnt thinking about drinking 1 glass of wine each day, but instead say going to a non-muslim wedding (e.g. a friends) and having a glass of champagne. This occurance would happen maybe, say once a year or so.
Just wondering, does the hadith say anything about the pork issue i raised? I mean if pork was raised cleanly and given proper food, and then killed in a halal manner, would it be alright to eat? (this doesnt apply to me, but does follow the same logic). i think it would be alright to eat. btw, i am not trying to get round or find loopholes, i just think that it is important to realise why things are haram in islam, and if these problems are correct, then probably they are halal!
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Zuber
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#239
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#239
As i said earlier, i would try to cover a topic that i feel the qu'ran may not have covered. And this applies to me directly. it is the subject of vegetarianism. I am an aspiring vegetarian, however i must often betray this to satisfy my parents. My parents believe that it is completely non-muslim to not eat meat, and very much like Hindus.
My sister too doesnt agree and says you must eat because Allah has provided for us. Now i am not going to argue that Allah has not put animals on this planet for us to eat, because he has (and for other reasons). You can see this in nature with all the different food chains in an ecosystem, and therefore it was wrong to eat meat, it would not be so in nature.
The problem i have with it is that our eating animals is not natural but far from it. These animals are all raised with the intention to being slaughtered for meat. And these animals are raised in the poorest conditions (most of the time) - look on this thread for an example http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t108120.html

I am sure that it does happen with halal meat too. I have seen (from experience) that Muslims are very often as money driven (sometimes more!) than big corporations, and hence will sacrifice morals for profit.

Another problem i have is that today science is much more advanced. This means that we can have a completely balanced diet without any meat whatsoever. this was nowhere near possible in the time of the revelation of the Qu'ran. It just seems to me that Allah is offering me an alternative. However it seems that in this instance the Qu'ran is working against me - i.e. animals are put here to be eaten.

Anyone have any views on this? thanks.
Are there any other muslims that don't feel too comfortable with eating meat?
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Euler
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#240
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#240
i wud like to join... thanks
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