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Zuber
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#261
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#261
(Original post by CogitoErgoSum)
marriage is terminated after divorce proceedings. you cant end a marriage just like that. unless there's a specific reason you have to go through conselling and everything you can to try and stay together. an engagment can just be broken off with a word....
I know that legally it is harder to end a marriage. However for many people, the difference between being engaged and married is a marriage ceremoney.
BUT to contradict myself i know that there are plenty of people who get engaged when they are not ready for it, etc. There are still those who are ready for it completely, and at that stage, an engagement is like being married. And for those people who are committed, if a problem arises in an engagement, they would do all possible to stop them breaking up such as couple's therapy.
SO BASICALLY: i think that what i am saying doesnt apply to everyone. I am just saying this because i will do what i can to not take engagement lightly in the future. I honestly believe that when i get engaged, that will be it for me for the rest of my life. And at that stage, i dont see the point of waiting for a simple ceremony to occur.
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Zuber
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#262
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#262
Another point is that a wedding may not be possible for some time (e.g. a year or so) after the engagement. This could be for several reasons, e.g. illness, money, finishing a uni course. Does that mean i abstain from expressing how i trully feel for a whole yeah, JUST because of money reasons (to take an example)???
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Zuber
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#263
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#263
Oh and i did forget to mention - marriage can also be ended with a word. The man/woman then walks out, never to be seen again. I have heard of this happening quite a few times.
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zaaks786
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#264
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#264
(Original post by Zuber)
I know that legally it is harder to end a marriage. However for many people, the difference between being engaged and married is a marriage ceremoney.
BUT to contradict myself i know that there are plenty of people who get engaged when they are not ready for it, etc. There are still those who are ready for it completely, and at that stage, an engagement is like being married. And for those people who are committed, if a problem arises in an engagement, they would do all possible to stop them breaking up such as couple's therapy.
SO BASICALLY: i think that what i am saying doesnt apply to everyone. I am just saying this because i will do what i can to not take engagement lightly in the future. I honestly believe that when i get engaged, that will be it for me for the rest of my life. And at that stage, i dont see the point of waiting for a simple ceremony to occur.
i guess engagement is kinda like the first step of marriage, problem is most ppl dnt take it tht seriously so just to be sure theres tht lil ceremony...ur wedding just to finalise everything and then thts it for sure!
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Zuber
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#265
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#265
(Original post by zaaks786)
i guess engagement is kinda like the first step of marriage, problem is most ppl dnt take it tht seriously so just to be sure theres tht lil ceremony...ur wedding just to finalise everything and then thts it for sure!
thanks for the reply zaak. did you read my post immediately after that? what would you do if you HAD to put the wedding off for some stupid reason (e.g. money)? doesnt seem fair to wait does it...
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zaaks786
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#266
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#266
(Original post by Zuber)
thanks for the reply zaak. did you read my post immediately after that? what would you do if you HAD to put the wedding off for some stupid reason (e.g. money)? doesnt seem fair to wait does it...
No it doesnt...(money....marriage dnt need no money...ok maybe it does!) seem fair to wait but immma strong beleiver and if i hve to wait, it aint gonna kill me, cos i mean been waitin for ever b4 tht...a few more months wont kill!
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Zuber
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#267
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#267
(Original post by zaaks786)
No it doesnt...(money....marriage dnt need no money...ok maybe it does!) seem fair to wait but immma strong beleiver and if i hve to wait, it aint gonna kill me, cos i mean been waitin for ever b4 tht...a few more months wont kill!
I anticipated a response like that. I mean sure it wouldnt kill to wait a few more months, but it is terribly unfair. Anything can happen in those months. You could even die, or your partner could. At least you know that you shared that ultimate act of love with the person you trully loved.
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zaaks786
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#268
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#268
(Original post by Zuber)
I anticipated a response like that. I mean sure it wouldnt kill to wait a few more months, but it is terribly unfair. Anything can happen in those months. You could even die, or your partner could. At least you know that you shared that ultimate act of love with the person you trully loved.
lol...u anticipated tht did ya!yeah it does seem unfair, but Allah sees all and everything comes frm him good and bad...u jus gots to be ready to deal with it and be content!
yea...im still waiting tho, no1 said it wud be easy, man i cant wait,lol, but i guess il have to...patience is a virtue zuber!
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Zuber
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#269
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#269
(Original post by zaaks786)
lol...u anticipated tht did ya!yeah it does seem unfair, but Allah sees all and everything comes frm him good and bad...u jus gots to be ready to deal with it and be content!
yea...im still waiting tho, no1 said it wud be easy, man i cant wait,lol, but i guess il have to...patience is a virtue zuber!
I dont really think this is a question of patience - i mean we would be waiting, what about 20 years, a few more months wouldnt kill us as you rightly said.
However i try to lead by principles, i dont see a solid enough argument as to saying why not have sex when you are at that trully committed stage. I mean, if it is because of nikkah, at the end of the day, if you know nikkah and you and your partner both mutually agree with each other without signing that piece of paper, its fine. As you said, Allah sees all, and he knows all, and so he would understand the good intentions. I mean, this isnt a situation where i would be like "i know what, let me propose so i can have sex!".
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zaaks786
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#270
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#270
(Original post by Zuber)
I dont really think this is a question of patience - i mean we would be waiting, what about 20 years, a few more months wouldnt kill us as you rightly said.
However i try to lead by principles, i dont see a solid enough argument as to saying why not have sex when you are at that trully committed stage. I mean, if it is because of nikkah, at the end of the day, if you know nikkah and you and your partner both mutually agree with each other without signing that piece of paper, its fine. As you said, Allah sees all, and he knows all, and so he would understand the good intentions. I mean, this isnt a situation where i would be like "i know what, let me propose so i can have sex!".
I kno!and i agree completely!but with alot of people an engagement isnt serious and alot of people tend to be engaged 4ever.....and end up jus living together. oh yeah and dnt 4get bk in the prophets(pbuh) time their was no engagements so technically u shud jus get married...so no wait!but now tht engagements are the thing to do u jus hve to......even if u and ur partner are completely serious, best keep ur engagement period short then!
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Zuber
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#271
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#271
(Original post by zaaks786)
I kno!and i agree completely!but with alot of people an engagement isnt serious and alot of people tend to be engaged 4ever.....and end up jus living together. oh yeah and dnt 4get bk in the prophets(pbuh) time their was no engagements so technically u shud jus get married...so no wait!but now tht engagements are the thing to do u jus hve to......even if u and ur partner are completely serious, best keep ur engagement period short then!
Wow i never knew there was never any engagements! i think this just strengthens our case . And yeah, i think that it does depend largely on the situation, so therefore the best thing to do depends on the people.
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zaaks786
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#272
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#272
(Original post by Zuber)
Wow i never knew there was never any engagements! i think this just strengthens our case . And yeah, i think that it does depend largely on the situation, so therefore the best thing to do depends on the people.
well at least i think there wasnt any....yeah it does depend on wat u wnt, yeh i think i wnt a shrt engagement....once ur kinda hitched it be harder to wait...no?
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Zuber
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#273
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#273
(Original post by zaaks786)
well at least i think there wasnt any....yeah it does depend on wat u wnt, yeh i think i wnt a shrt engagement....once ur kinda hitched it be harder to wait...no?
i dont really care much about engagements. As i said, i intend to get engaged only when i am ready to get married. So by then, when i get engaged, i could get married the next day really! I do think that it would be better without engagements altogether...
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zaaks786
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#274
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#274
(Original post by Zuber)
i dont really care much about engagements. As i said, i intend to get engaged only when i am ready to get married. So by then, when i get engaged, i could get married the next day really! I do think that it would be better without engagements altogether...
yea wat be the point in getting engaged if u wernt ready to get married best to do at wen u r!.....long time off for me!i think the engagement period for me wud be between him comin to meet my parents and getting the wedding things ready..no need to delay at all!infact ill probs rush things...once ive found the rite person!
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Zuber
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#275
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#275
(Original post by zaaks786)
yea wat be the point in getting engaged if u wernt ready to get married best to do at wen u r!.....long time off for me!i think the engagement period for me wud be between him comin to meet my parents and getting the wedding things ready..no need to delay at all!infact ill probs rush things...once ive found the rite person!
i wholeheartingly agree with everything you said
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zaaks786
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#276
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#276
(Original post by Zuber)
i wholeheartingly agree with everything you said
Zuber...great minds think alike!!

:five:
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Zuber
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#277
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#277
(Original post by zaaks786)
Zuber...great minds think alike!!

:five:
damn straight. and now unfortunately i need to get back to revision. i have both C2 and C3 on monday. dammit. dont worry zaaks i'll check up on here later
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zaaks786
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#278
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#278
(Original post by Zuber)
damn straight. and now unfortunately i need to get back to revision. i have both C2 and C3 on monday. dammit. dont worry zaaks i'll check up on here later
damnit!so do i!ive got 2 bio papers and one chem paper this week!
Go revise!
and ill spk to ya laters
Wa Salaam!
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bengal_tiger
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#279
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#279
hang on is what you people are saying is that sexbe4 marriage is ok if both partners are commited to each other? marriage isnt completely neccessary, thats a liberal , post modernist stance i never expected

thats my personal belief anyway if u disagree tell me why
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Zuber
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#280
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#280
(Original post by bengal_tiger)
hang on is what you people are saying is that sexbe4 marriage is ok if both partners are commited to each other? marriage isnt completely neccessary, thats a liberal , post modernist stance i never expected

thats my personal belief anyway if u disagree tell me why
bengal_tiger, we arent saying ONLY committed, but in an engagement. This is still only in certain circumstances. I mean, as zaak pointed out, in the time of the Prophet, there was no such thing as engagements, partly because weddings were much simpler then - as soon as you made your intentions to get married, you got married! Today there are a ton more things to think about for a wedding. e.g. if i chose to get engaged as a student, i would wait to get married until after i finish my course, which could end up being years! another example could simply be money. Weddings are very expensive today, and some people do want big weddings - e.g. if your fiance wanted a big wedding, wouldnt you oblige??? i would! However as i have stressed throughout this whole thing is that it is only applicable in a very serious engagement, which i practically consider to be a marriage.
Something i remember was saying was about the very literal interpretation of "no sex before marriage". i.e. if you had sex the day before you got married you would be commiting a sin, but straight after the ceremony, it is fine...seems a bit iffy to me. But of course, as i said throughout this entire discussion, good intentions are essential!
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