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    (Original post by Tom H)
    I can differentiate between humans and animals perfecty well, thanks. It's just I don't believe animals are there to be tortured for no other reason than the grotesque pleasure of humans.
    The difference is that you believe fox hunting implies torture for no other reason than pleasure. I dont. Please dont suggest otherwise. Whatsmore, can you define and demonstrate torture?
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    I have no problems with killing foxes - I did one in my car a few months ago. What I do object to is people moaning about fox hunting when there are far more important things to be bothered about - like education or the NHS.

    TS
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    What isnt religious about Halal?
    The argument that the guy presented was in the context of animal cruelty. Which is purely a physical thing. In that respect the physical method of killing used in halal, which can be taken beyong their religious connotations, are far from 'alien' to britain, and were infact used here for many centuries.
    Heck, my uncle used to kill poultry in a PHYSICALLY halal manner as recently as 10 years ago.
    They've had a big ccrackdown on backyard abbotoirs now though.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    But as I see it when a person takes a pet, they accept that they have a responsibility to look after and treat the pet properly, so when the owners fail in their responsibility, they should be prosecuted. Fox hunting is different.
    So when a random group of teenagers cut off a dog's ears, that's animal cruelty?

    If so, how is a group of people setting their dogs out to kill foxes any different?
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    The difference is that you believe fox hunting implies torture for no other reason than pleasure. I dont. Please dont suggest otherwise. Whatsmore, can you define and demonstrate torture?
    tor·ture (tôr'chər)
    n.

    -Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
    --An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
    -Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
    -Something causing severe pain or anguish

    Foxes don't die quickly. Dogs don't 'go for the neck' as some would have us believe. And dogs won't move out the way of a fox mid attack to give a huntsman a clear shot.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    So when a random group of teenagers cut off a dog's ears, that's animal cruelty?

    If so, how is a group of people setting their dogs out to kill foxes any different?
    Teenagers cutting off a dog's ears do it simply for fun. There are deeper reasons behind fox hunting.
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    where did i mention class? :rolleyes:

    but actually, how can it not be a class thing?
    You mentioned them going "tally ho" ... which is usually a snipe at them being "posh".

    How can it not be a class thing? Because the CLASS of the people has NOTHING to do with the issue.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    Teenagers cutting off a dog's ears do it simply for fun..
    urgghhhh you sadist
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    You mentioned them going "tally ho" ... which is usually a snipe at them being "posh".

    How can it not be a class thing? Because the CLASS of the people has NOTHING to do with the issue.
    umm.........i thought thats what they shouted...??

    and i thought that fox hunting was generally popular amongst the upper classes, tho there probably are exceptions
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    urgghhhh you sadist
    How is that sadist? It's true.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    The argument that the guy presented was in the context of animal cruelty. Which is purely a physical thing. In that respect the physical method of killing used in halal, which can be taken beyong their religious connotations, are far from 'alien' to britain, and were infact used here for many centuries.
    Heck, my uncle used to kill poultry in a PHYSICALLY halal manner as recently as 10 years ago.
    They've had a big ccrackdown on backyard abbotoirs now though.
    I think that was his point.
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    urgghhhh you sadist
    Well its the truth isn't it? I don't see how you could assume from that sentence that I was in favour of cutting off dogs ears (in fact I 'm not). Unless of course you were being sarcastic. More taking things out of context eh SophieD?
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    Teenagers cutting off a dog's ears do it simply for fun. There are deeper reasons behind fox hunting.
    It all ends with animals being harmed though, no?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    You mentioned them going "tally ho" ... which is usually a snipe at them being "posh".

    How can it not be a class thing? Because the CLASS of the people has NOTHING to do with the issue.
    No, but a lot of the public support for the ban probably boils down to class hostility.
    Class should not be a political issue with regard to fox hunting.

    The ban was a waste of time, enforced against the upper-classes, and it is not even effective.
    If the government were really bothered about the foxes, they should have banned all fox hunting, not just fox hunting with dogs.
    Fox hunting with dogs is not the most brutal method used.
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    umm.........i thought thats what they shouted...??

    and i thought that fox hunting was generally popular amongst the upper classes, tho there probably are exceptions
    I dont see why it being popular among the upper classes makes it a CLASS Issue... no more than violent lyrics in rap being a race issue.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    No, but a lot of the public support for the ban probably boils down to class hostility.
    Class should not be a political issue with regard to fox hunting.
    I couldnt agree more.

    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    The ban was a waste of time, enforced against the upper-classes, and it is not even effective.
    Neither is the age of consent really.


    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    If the government were really bothered about the foxes, they should have banned all fox hunting, not just fox hunting with dogs.
    Fox hunting with dogs is not the most brutal method used.
    True.
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    umm.........i thought thats what they shouted...??

    and i thought that fox hunting was generally popular amongst the upper classes, tho there probably are exceptions
    While its popular among the rural upper classes, its also popular among farmers and other countryside folks, whom by no stretch of the imagination could you call upper class.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    How is that sadist? It's true.
    yes i know its true..
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    While its popular among the rural upper classes, its also popular among farmers and other countryside folks, whom by no stretch of the imagination could you call upper class.
    Are you referring to fox hunting in general, or just fox hunting with dogs?
    The difference is quite significant.
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    (Original post by sophieD)
    yes i know its true..
    You make my head hurt..

    End of.
 
 
 
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