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Should guns be legal in the UK?

957 Country Bumpkin

3 years?? Your Firearms Branch was having a laugh there mate. Police interview? Surely you mean FO inspector...

Yeah, three years (applied four times). I didn't have good enough reasons apparently as I wasn't an active enough shooter and didn't hunt. The FO Inspector is affiliated and works closely with the police, I think it's perfectly reasonable to refer to them as such.

Reply 181

Blátönn

3

BaconDude

Guns are legal in America because they have a codified constitution that states "Americans have the right to bear arms". We don't have that. We have no reasons for guns, and laws would not allow it. You get sent down for GBH if you break a man's bone when he is breaking into your house or raping your daughter. You kill him you go down for life. So why give a gun for defense when defense laws are already screwed?

As previously mentioned it is perfectly legal to kill an intruder provided they aren't fleeing or otherwise incapacitated.

Reply 182

L i b

19

BaconDude

We have no reasons for guns

Evidently people disagree.

You get sent down for GBH if you break a man's bone when he is breaking into your house or raping your daughter. You kill him you go down for life. So why give a gun for defense when defense laws are already screwed?

Tabloid rubbish.

Reply 183

Howard

5

Blátönn

As previously mentioned it is perfectly legal to kill an intruder provided they aren't fleeing or otherwise incapacitated.

That's wrong. You have to be in actual fear for your life (or the life of someone else) You can't just blast away.

Reply 184

Blátönn

3

Howard

That's wrong. You have to be in actual fear for your life (or the life of someone else) You can't just blast away.

The guy could have a knife or a gun - how would you know? Frankly if someone invades your property you have every reason to fear for your life. Even if you didn't you could say you did, how would it be proven otherwise? As far as the law is concerned you're defending your life, the lives of your family, and your property. Regardless of what The Mirror would have you believe the law is on the home owners side.

Reply 185

Howard

5

Blátönn

The guy could have a knife or a gun - how would you know? Frankly if someone invades your property you have every reason to fear for your life. Even if you didn't you could say you did, how would it be proven otherwise? As far as the law is concerned you're defending your life, the lives of your family, and your property. Regardless of what The Mirror would have you believe the law is on the home owners side.

He could also be armed with a cinnamon roll.

The fact is that what you have said about the law in the US is wrong. It is NOT "perfectly legal to kill an intruder provided they aren't fleeing or otherwise incapacitated" If you told the cops that you saw a man in your home office going through your desk drawers so you shot him you'd find yourself charged with murder.

You'd have to lie.

Reply 186

b.ryan123

nooooooo. Note the correlation between rising gun crime in america and gun laws.
Although it is easier to monitor it when it is legal.
They are pretty pointless though

Reply 187

Blátönn

3

Howard

He could also be armed with a cinnamon roll.

The fact is that what you have said about the law in the US is wrong. It is NOT "perfectly legal to kill an intruder provided they aren't fleeing or otherwise incapacitated" If you told the cops that you saw a man in your home office going through your desk drawers so you shot him you'd find yourself charged with murder.

You'd have to lie.

Then lie.

Reply 188

Schleigg

18

Blátönn

Then lie.

Credibility Fail

Reply 189

Renner

19

If you need or want a gun there easy to get, you want to shoot competitively, sport or for pest control etc then all you need do is apply for a licence.

Or alternatively find a dark ally somewhere in Manchester and have £700 to hand

Reply 190

Howard

5

Blátönn

Then lie.

I was just setting you straight on the facts.

Reply 191

Nouvelle vague

lewis132

Why would we?

Part of the problem is the government treating us like idiots that cant think for ourselves and trying to control us.

Alot of crimes commited are not premeditated and are just rash or a heat of the moment thing, like an argument, where you end up killing someone for example.

Reply 192

BlackpoolCraig

11

Criminals are able to get hold of guns, so why shouldn't law-abiding people be able to get hold of them too?

Reply 193

sconzey

8

Nouvelle vague

Alot of crimes commited are not premeditated and are just rash or a heat of the moment thing, like an argument, where you end up killing someone for example.

You should cite your sources... :wink:

Also, just because a crime isn't premeditated doesn't mean it's not rational. There's strong evidence that the human mind has a large capacity for subconsciously evaluating risk and reward before acting.

Reply 194

300mg

1

This is the UK. When I walk down the street and I get mugged, I know that worst case scenario - realistically - is I get stabbed.

Walk down the street in Baltimore and worst case scenario is you get 30 AK47 rounds if your chest.

The UK is already full of idiots - the last thing we want to do is arm them legally. Yes, many people would use them for protection but this number would be dwarfed by the amount of retards, criminals and psychotics who would use them to send the UKs murder rate through the roof.

If guns made us safer, the USA would be one of the safest places on earth. In reality, it's got the highest murder rate by far in the developed world.

Reply 195

sconzey

8

300mg

This is the UK. When I walk down the street and I get mugged, I know that worst case scenario - realistically - is I get stabbed.

Really?

300mg

If guns made us safer, the USA would be one of the safest places on earth. In reality, it's got the highest murder rate by far in the developed world.

You need three data-points to plot a line. It's a hideous over-simplification to put the US murder rate solely down to the liberal gun laws.

Switzerland has more liberal gun laws, and much higher levels of gun-ownership (most adults in Switzerland are part of the army reserve and have to keep an assault rifle in their house by law), yet an enviable murder-rate.

I'm not putting that down to the gun laws either, but there must be far better arguments against widespread firearm-ownership than "look how **** the US is! those crazy yanks, we don't want to be like them!"

sconzey

Yes, really. Jean Charles de Menezes was such a rare case that it has made headlines for years. Let's be real here - it was a day or two after a big terrorist attack on the tube and this man, an illegal immigrant, was trying to get onto the tube when armed policemen shouted for him to stop. Now I don't know about you but I really do believe that any rational human being would stop under such authority. The police were doing their jobs, made a mistake which de Menezes made 10 times worse by reacting like he did. The police thought he was going to blow the place up for crying out loud.

So yes, really - it is much safer to walk down the street without guns.

sconzey

You need three data-points to plot a line. It's a hideous over-simplification to put the US murder rate solely down to the liberal gun laws.

Switzerland has more liberal gun laws, and much higher levels of gun-ownership (most adults in Switzerland are part of the army reserve and have to keep an assault rifle in their house by law), yet an enviable murder-rate.

Most of the murders in the USA are carried out with legally owned firearms. The USA is a massive country with some massive cities and some hugely run down areas. To compare it with Switzerland is not really going anywhere seeing as Switzerland has one of the highest GDPs in the world and does not have crime and poverty on the same scale as the USA. Of course there will be bad areas in Switzerland, but they will be minor in comparison to the likes of downtown Baltimore or LA. The Swiss are also trained in [mandatory?] army training so they are taught how to use a weapon and will be trained as soldiers, not trigger happy civilians.

The fact remains, arming a troubled nation will only lead to trouble. Murders, robberies, rapes.... virtually every type of crime will rise in a society with guns. Major cities in the UK are bad enough in some parts without legally owned guns, I can see nothing positive coming from it other than a few patriots who live in the crime free suburbs draping themselves in rifles and ammunition to "protect themselves".

Reply 197

sconzey

8

300mg

The police thought he was going to blow the place up for crying out loud.
This is true, but it remains a fact that an innocent man was shot ten times in the head, without being either charged or convicted. Being shot is still pretty unlikely in the UK, but my point was that it is facile to assume that banning handguns stop people getting them.

300mg

Most of the murders in the USA are carried out with legally owned firearms.
I'd be interested where you found that. In Canada 0.7% of violent crime is done with a legal firearm, and in the US, the DoJ find that of everyone who goes to prison and has a firearm, 80% are stolen, borrowed, smuggled or otherwise illegally owned.

300mg

The USA is a massive country with some massive cities and some hugely run down areas. To compare it with Switzerland is not really going anywhere seeing as Switzerland has one of the highest GDPs in the world and does not have crime and poverty on the same scale as the USA.
Well yes, that was rather my point -- that there's more to gun crime than just whether guns are legal or not.

Reply 198

scanningforlifeforms

no, we definitely don't want a gun system like the USA. Just look at the BNP, and ask yourself-do you want them armed? We already have massive problems with knife crime in some areas of the country, do we really want to make guns available over the counter at the ASDA? I don't think so.

Reply 199

300mg

1

sconzey

This is true, but it remains a fact that an innocent man was shot ten times in the head, without being either charged or convicted. Being shot is still pretty unlikely in the UK, but my point was that it is facile to assume that banning handguns stop people getting them.

So, just because there is an illegal trade in firearms in the UK it means we should legalise guns? The only positive coming from that is that the black market would disappear but the negative is that it's now free and easy for any drug dealer, rapist or psychotic to go and buy a gun. I think most people will sleep easier knowing that our efforts are being put into stopping people getting guns rather than encouraging it.

sconzey

I'd be interested where you found that. In Canada 0.7% of violent crime is done with a legal firearm, and in the US, the DoJ find that of everyone who goes to prison and has a firearm, 80% are stolen, borrowed, smuggled or otherwise illegally owned.

Stolen or borrowed simply means that they were once owned legally - the guns came from legitimate manufacturers inside the USA and were sold to legitimate owners under US law.

sconzey

Well yes, that was rather my point -- that there's more to gun crime than just whether guns are legal or not.

My point of Switzerland is that it's a much safer and more prosperous country to live in the the UK and USA. Here in the UK we have many of the same problems the USA have in terms of run down city slums and violence - a free gun market would have a similar effect to what has happened to the USA, not Switzerland.

Look, I personally would love to legally own a handgun for recreational and protective use - that's because I'm a level headed and mentally well individual. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who are the exact opposite of that and we cannot allow them to own weapons just so some people can shoot cans in their back garden.

What's your argument for firearms anyway? Apart from the someone breaks into your house one... which wouldn't even work in this country anyway. It's "not right" to hurt people who break into your home and steal your hard earned belongings, remember.

Should guns be legal in the UK?

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