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Should Oxford lower their offers for state school pupils?

tommy.789

Also it wouldn't really benefit those that got low grade offers in the first place because they probably wouldn't be able to cope with the work when they got there.

The difference between getting AAA and AAB (and even ABB) is negligible. Grade slips can happen to anyone, it doesn't prove that they're less educated, or less able than anyone else (especially when it's A level).

Reply 21

MalcomNewMoney84

12

necessarily benevolent

All university offers should be scaled in accordance to school quality.

A very reasonable proposal indeed :yes:

Reply 22

omgosh

9

That's why they have the interviews and the aptitude for some exams. And I don't think you understand the main point which people are making and that is, if you're good enough to get an offer, getting AAA is the easiest part. No matter what school you're from.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 23

SmellyCat16

1

at the end of the day this debate about preference for state school kids is just political.

Reply 24

poossum

2

No, apart from the obvious nature of being offensive and degrading to state school pupils (they take that into account during the interview process) it will destroy the reputation of the finest university in the country, the top universities are the top ones for a reason.

Reply 25

Mitchy0283

In my opinion the offer should be the same for all applicants, irrespective of which school or college they have attended at every university. With reference to Oxford and Cambridge, they want the best people who they can model and teach new and challenging topics and they most certainly won't want to affect that in order to meet government targets of getting a certain percent of state school students at their institutes.

Reply 26

necessarily benevolent

14

I'd question using the school examination system at all in university applications, but that's for another thread.

Reply 27

hobnob

14

Jenii

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this- just a quick thought experiment. Sorry if it's been done before.
It has. Lots of times.

I was just having a quick mosey through an old OxStu (student newspaper for those not in the know) and notice back on page 9 another story about "Oxford missing state school target" by 20%. In 2007, 53.4% of starting students at Oxford came from State Schools (target of 77.5%).

The article goes on to say the target is unrealistic from Oxford, particularly as state schools produce fewer candidates with the right qualifications at the right level.

So, do you think it would be acceptable for Oxford to bias in favour of state schools? Maybe let state-school candidates in with offers of AAB or ABB? Or perhaps by only asking candidates from independent schools to get the new A* grade?

But at the moment, they're not planning to ask anyone for A*s. :s-smilie:

Anyway, I don't really see how lowering the offer conditions for those who do get offers would benefit state-school applicants. As far as I'm aware the problem isn't that state-school applicants are failing to meet their AAA offers once they've got them.
If you're suggesting lowering the application requirements to a prediction of AAB, all you'd achieve by that would be a few thousand extra applicants and a much higher percentage of rejections before interviews. Again, I fail to see the benefits for state-school applicants (or anyone, really).

Reply 28

eulerwaswrong

13

wel if your good enough for cambridge/oxford then it shouldnt matter what school you go to.

Im sorry getting 3As shouldnt be a massive deal for someone capable of going to cambridge/oxford. Ive gone to a dreadful school and have managed okay (fingers crossed) - self taught the entirity of further math, self taught half of maths. And physics and chem ive had to do a lot myself. In some modules i have got double what anybody else in the class has etc. (my school so nuts about me getting into cam - they had me on their advert in the paper)

My point being is that to anybody capable of cambridge - 3As is nothing. And i think they do take it into consideration a little bit atm

Reply 29

Cirsium

19

necessarily benevolent

The difference between getting AAA and AAB (and even ABB) is negligable. Grade slips can happen to anyone, it doesn't prove that they're less educated, or less able than anyone else (especially when it's A level).

The difference between AAA and AAB is clearly not negligible, but it is easy enough to do if you slip up and aren't in a good position to begin with. Going into my last exam I would have to have not finished the first question to get a B. It's depressing if you came that close and then had it snatched away, but that's what the grade boundary is there for. If you get a B then you're not an A-grade candidate, you're an A/B borderline candidate who slipped up / got cocky / had a bad day... And you were skating on thin ice to begin with.

If you can't cope with revising a syllabus that's given to you in spoon sized bites and tested in a one hour exam, then how can you expect to live in a world where every week you get a title and the Bodleian and go a-roaming alone?

Reply 30

Crimsonchilli

12

no they should offer exactly the same for both.
it should be nothing to do with your background, but you sheer intellect and personality.]
If state school kids cant reach the grades, then tough, and its exactly the same for private school kids, if they cant get the grades, then tough luck.

Reply 31

Teebs

16

Almost everyone who applies to Oxford gets 3As, accepted or rejected. Why would you lower grade requirements for state schoolers when you already have a lot of 3A candidates who are not considered good enough?

I know of people at Oxford who are struggling to keep up who got AAA. I tend to think that people who didn't are either lazy or will have real trouble keeping up and neither is a desirable student for Oxford.

The problem is that even if someone who got say... ABB at a really bad school was originally of equivalent ability to someone who got AAA at a good school, years of bad schooling will mean that by the time of university applications they will be of lower ability and potential, regardless. The way to deal with these problems is to hit them early. A relevant study I've seen during revision on education for my degree found that wealth/social class makes almost no difference to university entrance between candidates with the same A level grades, but it makes a huge difference in how likely they are to be at the level of those grades. Dealing with the problem early is the way to go.

Reply 32

crazygirl4521

14

The problem is not with the offers but the 100 year old ties Oxbridge has with various public schools e.g eton, harrow, Wellington collage, st pauls school and list goes on. This 'special relationship' will not be broken for that reason trying to lower entry requires/increasing them or introducing new schemes simply will not work. This is not a problem primarily with the admission system but is a problem with the fundamentals of oxbridge and the ethos of Oxbridge system itself.

Reply 33

ChosenOne

11

Crimsonchilli

no they should offer exactly the same for both.
it should be nothing to do with your background, but you sheer intellect and personality.]
If state school kids cant reach the grades, then tough, and its exactly the same for private school kids, if they cant get the grades, then tough luck.

I agree it should be about your intellect and personality which is exactly why I think they should take into account a students background.

Reply 34

whiplash

10

If you can't make AAA at A level you really will struggle at Oxbridge/London etc and so I think it is saving the student 3 years of their life where they would constantly struggle at the bottom of the cohort.

Reply 35

PurpleMonkeyDishwasher

13

I don't think it's Oxford's problem to sort out, I think the goverment should banish all private education, or banish private schools' abilities to award A levels. I'm not a socialist but I do believe everyone should have a fair start in education.

Reply 36

Teebs

16

maze.e

The problem is not with the offers but the 100 year old ties Oxbridge has with various public schools e.g eton, harrow, Wellington collage, st pauls school and list goes on. This 'special relationship' will not be broken for that reason trying to lower entry requires/increasing them or introducing new schemes simply will not work. This is not a problem primarily with the admission system but is a problem with the fundamentals of oxbridge and the ethos of Oxbridge system itself.

********.

Reply 37

Olivia_Lightbulb

9

That is extremely insulting to state school pupils. Just because they are not spoon-fed to the same degree as private school pupils, it does not mean they are any less capable of achieving the same grades as them. To lower the grades required for state school pupils, and therefore to consequently assume state school pupils are less deserving of a place at Oxford, would be grossly patronising and ultimately harmful.