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Maccountant
You do know that dividends aren't a fixed amount that is shared consistently. In fact sometimes little or none is given out as most of the companies' profits are re-invested back into the business.
Big companies are not always safe. They can easily suffer from a drop in share price. It doesn't take much at all (you should know this). At the end of the day it's a risk. And leveraging; although may sound good with the 0% interest, can cause major problems. Leaving uni with £7K debt? Yes, maybe... or leave uni with a £70K debt.
Unless you're confident and think you know alot about the economy, finance, shares etc, I wouldn't advise anyone to take up your idea.
Big companies are not always safe. They can easily suffer from a drop in share price. It doesn't take much at all (you should know this). At the end of the day it's a risk. And leveraging; although may sound good with the 0% interest, can cause major problems. Leaving uni with £7K debt? Yes, maybe... or leave uni with a £70K debt.
Unless you're confident and think you know alot about the economy, finance, shares etc, I wouldn't advise anyone to take up your idea.
I do understand what you are saying, but i beg to differ on these points (i prefer points rather than text or ill just ramble!)
1. cash positive companies like tobacco, oil and pharma are the best dividend yields, and also the safest. for example BP has a 5 year dividend average of 7.8%, which is far, far higher than the rate banks would give through interest.
2. the 70k loss example you gave is physically impossible, as you cannot lose more than you put into shares. this kind of mentality puts a lot of people off, but you just CANNOT lose anymore than you have put in.
3. on top of which, losing on the share value of BP in the long run is counter intuitive as it is again a cash rich company, and typically (as can be seen by its recent prices) recessions have little impact on them. More importantly, i am not recommending this for day traders. day trading does not work unless you are a professional. this is for people who can leave money in a safe place for 3-5 years and reap the rewards.
4. share price can go down, but the whole point of a cash rich company (and one with a large dividend) is that the dividend will easily outstrip any fluctuations in price, on top of which in the long run the stock market since ww2 has made an average of a 13% increase.
5. saying that shares are dangerous...as opposed to what? cash? cash is extremely unreliable, espeically right now with sovereign ratings being devalued and quantative easing being put in place.
6. Companies like glaxo and BP have been here for eons, and have given solid dividends for a similar time. if they DO go bust and/or stop giving dividends, then forget your shares we should beworrying about the imminent collapse of the economy. its hardly a risk worth thinking about. what will the point of uni even be?
On top of that i disagree that sometimes little or none is given out, i am not talking about shares like Mecom or ftse250 shares, this is about the largest high income dividend payers that will pretty much always havfe to pay dividend in order to keep those institutional investors+long term holders happy, or those same large investors will leave and voila you have a monumental drop in share price. again remember, cash rich!
7. Leveraging: its not leveraging if it aint got interest
in any case that overdraft is actually cheaper than the student loan. however can i stress you should never ever borrow on interest to put into shares, ever
right my essay is done, in no way was this a rebuttal just that your ideas where very similar to mine about some of this, but what I learnt about income investing is as above and refutes the same thoughts you had that i did.
I am not recommending investments to people if they dont research it first, nothing in it for me but i do think being able to learn this stuff from an early age will give you that bit of an edge. personally, i find this all too low risk and boring, give me a (good fundamentals of course) volatile share anyday! (<<<please dont do that unless you are willing to risk what capital you put in, are rich enough to or have learnt enough about equities)
right...
sleep
ninety_nine
Oh no - the freshers thread has turned all cold and practical!
clubbing!
there all social again
Roberto_Ferrari
hey how do i go about buying stocks in glaxo
depends on what you want to buy them for, if dividends i would recommend BP at 8.2 (ICAP is another one at 8.2) . glaxo can be bought through an execution only online comapny like (i use) interactive investor, which is £10 a trade. cheapest is hoodless brennan but III has by far the best community.
if you are looking to invest because you think te share price is oversold and will go up, then make SURE you have your facts right. and dont invest too much if its your first time.
yahoo fantasy trader is brill for shares, you get virtual money but since you follow the actual market its a good way of learning without risk.
__Katy
Just to but in - the tutition loan makes sense to keep in a savings accounts if you can pay up front as the interest is 1.5% (from the word go) but you can earn 4% on it
(The joys of having a chartered accountant as a mother...)
(The joys of having a chartered accountant as a mother...)
a savings account is course better than a current account bt only if you feel like a high yielding cash positive low geared company like BP is not worth the risk, just a fag pack calculation over 3 years at 4.5% on 3500 every year added is a profit of £970 but with an 8% dividend is £1770, only slightly under double the profit.
right **** if i dont sleep im gonna be out my head in the morning
I totally understand what you're saying Tazx but I'm trying to clarify that there are always risks involved. If this was guranteed then I'm sure everyone would be investing money into shares and everyone would be generating profits, but sadly it's not the case. My £70k debt wasn't just based on share loss.
__Katy
Law people were advised not to read any books over the summer, but here are 3 books if you really really have to. I think those were the lecturer's exact words too 
I've been working my ass off trying to get through the core content for next year... I really want to make the grades for the 'Year in America thing' and would happily sell my mother into slavery for a first.
Maccountant
I totally understand what you're saying Tazx but I'm trying to clarify that there are always risks involved. If this was guranteed then I'm sure everyone would be investing money into shares and everyone would be generating profits, but sadly it's not the case. My £70k debt wasn't just based on share loss.
based on what else then sorry don't qiuet understand what you mean on that 70k bit.
Yes there is risks on anything, there are risks that if you put the money into a bank the bank will collapse and leave you with nothing, but that risk is minimal, and with dividends there is alse a very low risk.
i agree about warning people about stupid things they can do with their money (like inexperienced day trading), but other than that you have to remember a lot of people are suspicious of shares because it has this "city slick" mentality around it, and its osmething the city boys have been pushing on the general public for years.
Sorry el mariachi hijacking your thread! ill make a share thread for anyone interested in talking about this stuff
El Mariachi
100% agreed. Ever since our little chat on the visit day I've been constantly looking into investing etc.
I think there are loooaaads of ways to be safe and earn much much much higher rates of return than the banks give you.
All I have is a share dealing account, I bought Oil ETCs when the price was $58 and sold at $69, 19% return in a few months, easy money, and very little risk involved if you do your research.
Currently, I've done the same thing, but with copper, am 8% up, so already more than any bank pays, and I've only been holding for around a month and a half.
As long as you read the news everyday, I can't see where you can go wrong...and to be on the safe side, I'm just taking profits at around 20% each time.
I used to have savings accounts etc. but fact is, all the interest you get at the moment is a load of rubbish, you can get much greater returns if you just apply a little bit of thought, and I seriously think anyone can do it. It's just a question of breaking the perception of risk, and being bothered to do it.
Anyway..back on topic
?
I think there are loooaaads of ways to be safe and earn much much much higher rates of return than the banks give you.
All I have is a share dealing account, I bought Oil ETCs when the price was $58 and sold at $69, 19% return in a few months, easy money, and very little risk involved if you do your research.
Currently, I've done the same thing, but with copper, am 8% up, so already more than any bank pays, and I've only been holding for around a month and a half.
As long as you read the news everyday, I can't see where you can go wrong...and to be on the safe side, I'm just taking profits at around 20% each time.
I used to have savings accounts etc. but fact is, all the interest you get at the moment is a load of rubbish, you can get much greater returns if you just apply a little bit of thought, and I seriously think anyone can do it. It's just a question of breaking the perception of risk, and being bothered to do it.
Anyway..back on topic
?yep and look at agriculture etfs, am putting a lot of money into that next month, but dammit its risen by 10% already.
that said, having a GREAT flipping day today, making 85% on one share, 11% on another (which was the one that completely reduced my holding as it flopped) and 14% on another, averaging a 40% increase on total equity! yay
xTazx
based on what else then sorry don't qiuet understand what you mean on that 70k bit.
Yes there is risks on anything, there are risks that if you put the money into a bank the bank will collapse and leave you with nothing, but that risk is minimal, and with dividends there is alse a very low risk.
i agree about warning people about stupid things they can do with their money (like inexperienced day trading), but other than that you have to remember a lot of people are suspicious of shares because it has this "city slick" mentality around it, and its osmething the city boys have been pushing on the general public for years.
Sorry el mariachi hijacking your thread! ill make a share thread for anyone interested in talking about this stuff
yep and look at agriculture etfs, am putting a lot of money into that next month, but dammit its risen by 10% already.
that said, having a GREAT flipping day today, making 85% on one share, 11% on another (which was the one that completely reduced my holding as it flopped) and 14% on another, averaging a 40% increase on total equity! yay
Yes there is risks on anything, there are risks that if you put the money into a bank the bank will collapse and leave you with nothing, but that risk is minimal, and with dividends there is alse a very low risk.
i agree about warning people about stupid things they can do with their money (like inexperienced day trading), but other than that you have to remember a lot of people are suspicious of shares because it has this "city slick" mentality around it, and its osmething the city boys have been pushing on the general public for years.
Sorry el mariachi hijacking your thread! ill make a share thread for anyone interested in talking about this stuff
yep and look at agriculture etfs, am putting a lot of money into that next month, but dammit its risen by 10% already.
that said, having a GREAT flipping day today, making 85% on one share, 11% on another (which was the one that completely reduced my holding as it flopped) and 14% on another, averaging a 40% increase on total equity! yay
You can't compare the risks of trading shares with putting money in the bank. Firstly up to £50,000 is covered by the Government if a bank does go bust. Secondly as soon as you buy x amount of shares, you have already lost money, and are waiting to break even first before making your suggested profits.
Oh and with the 70K debt I exaggerated and it was suppose to mean the TOTAL debt a student will come out of uni with. Which includes tuition fees and everything else.
Anyway I don't want this to turn out into an argument. All I'm basically saying is that without any good knowledge, a student shouldn't take out numerous overdrafts and invest it in shares. It can be very dangerous. But for someone who is confident and is willing to take the risk, then it's ok. And I do agree that dividend collecting isn't that risky.
illy123
LOL what a way to live up to the LSE Economics stereotype
How about we start discussing leveraged carry trades next :d
How about we start discussing leveraged carry trades next :d
Ha, what geeks you economists are!
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconservatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
no offence to el mariachi but even my dog could make money from the recent trend of markets,
one friend of mine without the SLIGHTEST knowledge of economics opened a forex trading demo account and tripled his money in like 3 months, then he lost everything in days,
just look the DOW, if u bought shares 5 years ago, u would be boasting 50% profits in late 2007, , for 3 years you would be the EXPERT on stocks! then in a few months that would turn to a loss...
my point is: the loss is rare, but it's big enough to offset the profits
one friend of mine without the SLIGHTEST knowledge of economics opened a forex trading demo account and tripled his money in like 3 months, then he lost everything in days,
just look the DOW, if u bought shares 5 years ago, u would be boasting 50% profits in late 2007, , for 3 years you would be the EXPERT on stocks! then in a few months that would turn to a loss...
my point is: the loss is rare, but it's big enough to offset the profits
Lord Roem
Ha, what geeks you economists are!
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconsrvatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconsrvatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
lol waahh?
And I'm doing IR!
Lord Roem
Hehe. Don't worry, most of that's just gobbledegoook I use to annoy a bloke in my politics class who's not as clever as he thinks he is. I know little about what I've said.
:-)
What halls are you staying in?
:-)
What halls are you staying in?
I'd be hesitant to call Goldwater a Neoconservative or even the father of Neoconservatism, which is generally considered to be Irving Kristol.
Lord Roem
Ha, what geeks you economists are!
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconservatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconservatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
Whaaat? I hope you're not one of those people who are actually going to ask questions in lectures!
Lord Roem
Government and History at Bankside
This is you understand totally speculative on the slim chance that I've met the entry requirements. When I mean slim, I mean I will literally eat a penguin if I get in. Really, I'll film it on YouTube if I have to.
This is you understand totally speculative on the slim chance that I've met the entry requirements. When I mean slim, I mean I will literally eat a penguin if I get in. Really, I'll film it on YouTube if I have to.
noooo dont kill the penguins!!!!
Lord Roem
Government and History at Bankside
This is you understand totally speculative on the slim chance that I've met the entry requirements. When I mean slim, I mean I will literally eat a penguin if I get in. Really, I'll film it on YouTube if I have to.
This is you understand totally speculative on the slim chance that I've met the entry requirements. When I mean slim, I mean I will literally eat a penguin if I get in. Really, I'll film it on YouTube if I have to.
I will hunt you down at bankside and force one down your throat if you don't do it yourself.
Lord Roem
Ha, what geeks you economists are!
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconservatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
Not like us Political Scientists. Who fancies a debate on the merits of the American Progressive movement and it's electoral influence on the 1924 Presidential bid of Senator Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette? If that gets too heady we can just compare the Paleoconservatism of Senator Taft with the Neoconservative movement started by Barry Goldwater.
Sigh...I don't have any friends.
hah im not an economist! human resources ftw, 15 people on my course.
we get to talk about poeple and, social things.
__Katy
Ok, I don't know the exact dates (that's my disclaimer, right there) but I am fairly certain that the orientation day is Sunday the 27th (when the majority arrive), Michaelmas term technically starts on the 1st, but teaching starts on the 5th.
I think...
I think...
thx.... hope u r right about 27th as the orientation day because i arrive at london on the 25th. Any date after 25th is ok.
P.S.- http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/studentServicesCentre/OrientationUg/schoolOrientation.htm orientation is on 28th
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