Oxford PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics) Students and Applicants

I intend to specialise in Physics (having a NatSci offer) but have just realised that most of the interesting theoretical topics (String Theory, Supersymmetry and the Standard Model) are exclusively in Part III of the Maths Tripos!

Have I applied to the wrong course? Would a transfer be possible and/or necessary [for a research career in the topics I listed], and if so when would it be advisable to change (Now, after the first year, or just before Part III being the choices I see)? If I do wait until the last year, surely there will be a lot of mathematics I need that I won't have covered in Natsci?

Reply 5362

Supergrunch

Game_boy

I intend to specialise in Physics (having a NatSci offer) but have just realised that most of the interesting theoretical topics (String Theory, Supersymmetry and the Standard Model) are exclusively in Part III of the Maths Tripos!

Have I applied to the wrong course? Would a transfer be possible and/or necessary [for a research career in the topics I listed], and if so when would it be advisable to change (Now, after the first year, or just before Part III being the choices I see)? If I do wait until the last year, surely there will be a lot of mathematics I need that I won't have covered in Natsci?

Maybe try looking into to seeing whether you can do the maths with physics course, or alternatively, you'll probably be able to change later down the line if you're still interested in those areas and talented enough to study them.

Reply 5363

Game_boy

I intend to specialise in Physics (having a NatSci offer) but have just realised that most of the interesting theoretical topics (String Theory, Supersymmetry and the Standard Model) are exclusively in Part III of the Maths Tripos!

Have I applied to the wrong course? Would a transfer be possible and/or necessary [for a research career in the topics I listed], and if so when would it be advisable to change (Now, after the first year, or just before Part III being the choices I see)? If I do wait until the last year, surely there will be a lot of mathematics I need that I won't have covered in Natsci?

You could do a 3 year physics BA and then apply for the part III in maths separately. Competition for that course is fierce, however, and it certainly wouldn't be as straightforward as just continuing on to part III physics. Not to be patronizing, but it's also likely that your perspective on these things will change quite a lot as you progress through the course. Part III strings isn't like reading a Brian Greene book (of which you're no doubt aware, but all I'm saying is that it's difficult to say before you even get here what you'll want to be doing in later years).

Reply 5364

It's possible to change to Part III maths from Part II physics, without graduating (this is important for funding purposes). I think the difficulty would be convincing the DoSes at your college you could cope with it but if you are a theoretical superstar it should be fine. And, in a similar vein to BigFudamental, hopefully by then you will have realised that you're wrong about what's interesting.

Reply 5365

BigFudamental

You could do a 3 year physics BA and then apply for the part III in maths separately. Competition for that course is fierce, however, and it certainly wouldn't be as straightforward as just continuing on to part III physics. Not to be patronizing, but it's also likely that your perspective on these things will change quite a lot as you progress through the course. Part III strings isn't like reading a Brian Greene book (of which you're no doubt aware, but all I'm saying is that it's difficult to say before you even get here what you'll want to be doing in later years).

Yes, I appreciate it's an exceptionally hard course, and that I don't know what I'll want by that point. And that I'd have to cover the vast majority of Part I-II Maths if I intended to switch. I should know after three years doing Physics whether I'd be prepared to do that.

Thanks.

I may just do Part III ETP and turn up to some random String Theory etc. lectures (not doing the exam, just for interest).

Reply 5366

Game_boy

I may just do Part III ETP and turn up to some random String Theory etc. lectures (not doing the exam, just for interest).

Honestly that option is not to be underestimated. I show up to quite a lot of lectures for courses I'm not taking (if I happen to be in the area anyway and just waiting for lunch or something) and it's a great way to stay in touch with something without the pressure of having to learn every last detail of it.

Reply 5367

Tomato_Soup1992

14

BigFudamental

Honestly that option is not to be underestimated. I show up to quite a lot of lectures for courses I'm not taking (if I happen to be in the area anyway and just waiting for lunch or something) and it's a great way to stay in touch with something without the pressure of having to learn every last detail of it.

I didnt know you could do that. I'll make sure to look for a few maths lectures then.

Reply 5368

TheUnbeliever

16

Supermerp

It's possible to change to Part III maths from Part II physics, without graduating (this is important for funding purposes).

Purely as a curiosity, do you know if this is possible with computer science? I assume not, since the mathematical content of the course is lower in later years, and more specific. There are some relevant and interesting courses in there...

Reply 5369

Tomato_Soup1992

I didnt know you could do that. I'll make sure to look for a few maths lectures then.

In the first (and second) years it might be difficult to do what you want because everything will clash with your mighty timetable. By the 4th year it's quite possible to go to Part III maths lectures as well.

Also, you shouldn't overestimate how much maths you need to know to follow Part III maths theoretical physics courses. Theoretical physics is, after all, done by physicists and you do actually learn some maths doing the physics course. You'll probably need to pick up some group theory and topology (but in a 'for physicists' way, a la Mermin's review article, rather than 'let a topological space be the union of all open sets blah blah zzzzz' way) but other than that you'll be set, and you'll be a physicist and so capable of thinking in a more sensible way than a mathematician anyway. Or something like that.

Reply 5370

Supermerp

In the first (and second) years it might be difficult to do what you want because everything will clash with your mighty timetable. By the 4th year it's quite possible to go to Part III maths lectures as well.

In first year NST there are very few lecture clashes because they want to allow for as many combinations of courses as possible though. So it's really quite managable, especially since most lectures are in the same area anyway.

Reply 5371

BigFudamental

In first year NST there are very few lecture clashes because they want to allow for as many combinations of courses as possible though. So it's really quite managable, especially since most lectures are in the same area anyway.

Fair enough. I hadn't considered that there must be some leeway too because it has to be possible to do maths-with-physics.

I've never heard of someone from CompSci switching to Part III maths. That doesn't mean it's impossible or never happened, because I don't really hear many things.

Reply 5372

Which areas of maths, then, will I not have had exposure to in Part I-II Physics that are useful for the Part III theoretical physics options?

I know that I'll be prepared for a minority of the options, since Quantum Field Theory and Advanced QFT are offered within Part III ETP with no other Mathematics than part IB NatSci as a requirement.

Reply 5373

Game_boy

Which areas of maths, then, will I not have had exposure to in Part I-II Physics that are useful for the Part III theoretical physics options?

I know that I'll be prepared for a minority of the options, since Quantum Field Theory and Advanced QFT are offered within Part III ETP with no other Mathematics than part IB NatSci as a requirement.

I don't know the answer to that, but one point to bear in mind is that there is a maths option in 2nd year Natsci. All 2nd years do 3 courses, all physicists do Physics A and Physics B, and a lot of them then take extra Maths as the third (others do all sorts of stuff, typically materials, chem, geology), so you do get additional maths beyond what is taught inside the physics courses if you want it.

Reply 5374

BigFudamental

I don't know the answer to that, but one point to bear in mind is that there is a maths option in 2nd year Natsci. All 2nd years do 3 courses, all physicists do Physics A and Physics B, and a lot of them then take extra Maths as the third (others do all sorts of stuff, typically materials, chem, geology), so you do get additional maths beyond what is taught inside the physics courses if you want it.

Yes, where I said in my post 'Part IB' I meant Part IB Mathematics within NatSci (which I intend to take alongside Physics A/B).

But I'm fairly sure it doesn't cover all of the necessary set theory or group theory, a lot of the geometry for strings, or complex analysis.

Reply 5375