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Oxford PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics) Students and Applicants

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Original post by Confucian
Hi, if all goes well, I am looking to apply for Oxford for PPE. But it recently dawned on my the question of - how does any applicant applying to Oxford for PPE take note of other courses whilst not giving too much away in terms of applying to Oxford? For instance, if someone was also to apply for International Relations, how would an applicant mention in their personal statement their desire to study PPE without giving away the fact that its Oxford etc.

Many Thanks.


this has been answered 100 times.

Look through this thread or do a search on TSR and the answer will come up.

Or wait for a non-grumpy finalist PPEist to come along and answer you.

in short - almost everyone does it, Oxford are relatively indifferent to the PS anyway, other unis guess you're applying to PPE (since your application comes in before October 15th), some people write it with Oxford in mind and hope the others don't care (I did this - got 4 out of 5 offers, with the one rejection being PPE at Warwick), others gloss over one of the PPE subjects to make it fit their other unis better...
I wouldn't worry too much about a "misdirected PS". I would agree that the PS isn't particularly important - my own interview didn't touch upon, let alone revolve around, my PS.

Regardless, you can choose to focus upon why you want to study PPE and yet not explicitly mention the subject (e.g. you state that you are interested in political economy, and why) - that is what the tutors want to know anyway. Meanwhile, that PS is equally relevant for (say) Int. Relations, and you can tweak it even further to ensure greater relevance (e.g. writer about the Washington Consensus in the context of international political economy.) Other possible topics: 1) Humanitarian intervention - obvious philosophical and political issues, with an international dimension. 2) Democracy and economic growth - a perennial favourite, which came out for my own TSA; plenty of political and economic issues to talk about, and it is quintessentially an international and comparative issue.

You get the idea. Nonetheless, I offer a caveat - if you truly want to study PPE at Oxford, give it your best shot. Tailor everything towards getting in, from PS to general preparatory reading to UCAS application (i.e. apply for PPE across the board, so you don't have to worry about an irrelevant PS). If you're confident enough in your abilities, perhaps you can choose to forgo this - but I find that the most brilliant applicants tend to sincerely want PPE and only PPE anyway.



Anyway: May I ask whether the OP (by Tom Holder) regarding the 1st Year Reading List, last updated in 2011, is still accurate? I'm using it to organize my own preparation for 1st year - i.e. what to read, what to focus upon. It's pretty clear that Holbach's The Logic Manual is the centrepiece of the logic course, for instance - but what about the ten Maths PDF files that Tom has kindly uploaded? Or the readings for politics?

Thanks in advance.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Confucian
Hi, if all goes well, I am looking to apply for Oxford for PPE. But it recently dawned on my the question of - how does any applicant applying to Oxford for PPE take note of other courses whilst not giving too much away in terms of applying to Oxford? For instance, if someone was also to apply for International Relations, how would an applicant mention in their personal statement their desire to study PPE without giving away the fact that its Oxford etc.

Many Thanks.


Just to really confuse issues, on the one hand, the tutors at LMH stated that they do not care about the PS as 'most are terrible anyway' and 'just make sure your spelling and grammar is all correct, or you will get rejected.' On the other hand, for my interviews at Somerville, I was asked 3 questions on my PS (2 in Politics, 1 in economics) and they didn't have a copy in front of them, so at the very least they read it just before I came in the room. My instinct would still be to focus the majority on other unis, but many things can be made to apply to more than 1 subject anyway. To take a basic example, even if you're applying for Politics + Economics everywhere but Oxford, a philosophy tutor will still be somewhat happy if you've read An Introduction to Political Philosophy. Likewise, something like a book on Globalisation arguably woud work for Economics or politics.

Original post by ignisinvictus

Anyway: May I ask whether the OP (by Tom Holder) regarding the 1st Year Reading List, last updated in 2011, is still accurate? I'm using it to organize my own preparation for 1st year - i.e. what to read, what to focus upon. It's pretty clear that Holbach's The Logic Manual is the centrepiece of the logic course, for instance - but what about the ten Maths PDF files that Tom has kindly uploaded? Or the readings for politics?

Thanks in advance.


Regarding, ignisinvictus' question, I have been doing some research myself recently in to what the reading list is, as I am also starting next year. My conclusion was it seems to vary from college to college fairly dramatically.
Having looked at lists from 7 different colleges, the only book on every single one was N G Mankiw and M P Taylor, Macroeconomics, European Edition, Worth/Palgrave Macmillan .
On the other hand, these are all the named books for the prelims examination. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to read them over the summer though.
From Philosophy paper 1: 'Candidates will have the opportunity, but will not be required, to show first-hand knowledge of Descartes’ Meditations and Hume’s An Enquiry concerning Human Understanding.'
From Philosophy paper 2: This section shall be studied in connection with Mill's Utilitarianism.
From Philosophy paper 3: These topics shall be studied in conjunction with Volker Halbach’s Introduction to Logic manual, published by Oxford University Press.
From Politics paper 1: Questions will also be set on the following texts: J. J. Rousseau, The Social Contract; J. S. Mill, On Liberty; Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America; Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, The Communist Manifesto, Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon, Preface to a Critique of Political Economy, Critique of the Gotha Programme, plus readings 14, 37, 39 in David McLellan, ed., Karl Marx: Selected Writings, Second Edition (Oxford University Press, 2000).

Although no economics books are named there these were both on 4/7 of the reading lists I looked at: M. Katz and H. Rosen, Microeconomics. (McGraw-Hill, 2nd edition 2009)
H. Varian: Intermediate Microeconomics (8th edition, or any after 6th)
Original post by reena95
Just don't be scared to say what you think in the interview, they don't mind you getting things wrong as long as they see that you're talking outside the box.

Do they ask you Maths questions?
Original post by Alex-Torres
Do they ask you Maths questions?


Yes. In my interviews, everything the Economics tutors asked me focused on maths or game theory.
Original post by Koalagate
Yes. In my interviews, everything the Economics tutors asked me focused on maths or game theory.

Do they have a different tutor for each section, like for philosophy? I haven't learnt Game Theory before, how could they ask me on that?
Original post by Alex-Torres
Do they have a different tutor for each section, like for philosophy? I haven't learnt Game Theory before, how could they ask me on that?


From the way it's phrased it might not be obvious that it's a game theory question and shouldn't really need more than basic knowledge to answer. That said, I have heard of GT questions that required a lot of knowledge but that was E&M not PPE
Original post by Alex-Torres
Do they have a different tutor for each section, like for philosophy? I haven't learnt Game Theory before, how could they ask me on that?


You'll get asked questions by an expert on the subject - so a politics tutor wouldn't ask you the philosophy questions, for example - but the format of the interview seems to vary from college to college. Usually there are at least two interviewers but they could be for the same or different subjects.

Don't worry: you don't need to know anything because it's not stuff you get taught at school or can prepare for. Because the problems were so specific, nobody had pre-existing knowledge of how to do them and so people were forced to use raw logical thinking to tackle the problems (which is really what they're looking for).

A wider point can be made here: the tutors are trying to find out what you can do with what you know, not to flush out what you don't know. If at any stage they seem to be expecting you to know something you don't - for example, assuming you know some bit of maths that you haven't been taught yet (happened to a guy at interviews with me) - just tell the tutors and they'll simply ask you a different question.
Hello!
Basically I can't decided what I want to do for A-level, but know I want to do PPE!
I was originally doing five: English Lit, Maths, Chemistry, History & Classical civilisation, but have (wisely?) chosen to drop that to four.
So did everyone who does PPE do history at A-Level? I know it is 'recommended' but is that basically a requirement?
Many thanks!


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
Original post by hBreadman
Hello!
Basically I can't decided what I want to do for A-level, but know I want to do PPE!
I was originally doing five: English Lit, Maths, Chemistry, History & Classical civilisation, but have (wisely?) chosen to drop that to four.
So did everyone who does PPE do history at A-Level? I know it is 'recommended' but is that basically a requirement?
Many thanks!


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App


Not at all! I got in with Maths, Biology and Politics to A Level. Chemistry to AS.

Basically a scientist..
Original post by hBreadman
Hello!
Basically I can't decided what I want to do for A-level, but know I want to do PPE!
I was originally doing five: English Lit, Maths, Chemistry, History & Classical civilisation, but have (wisely?) chosen to drop that to four.
So did everyone who does PPE do history at A-Level? I know it is 'recommended' but is that basically a requirement?
Many thanks!



Nope. History is listed as useful because it's one of the most academically rigorous essay subjects that relates well to PPE but you don't need it (especially in your case as you'd have Eng Lit and Class Civ for the essay writing). I'd say the only one which could be bad if you don't have is Maths, which I presume you plan to do.

That being said, I personally found History very interesting and useful. I would definitely recommend it if you like the subject (but no need to stress about it if you don't!). :smile:
Original post by hBreadman
Hello!
Basically I can't decided what I want to do for A-level, but know I want to do PPE!
I was originally doing five: English Lit, Maths, Chemistry, History & Classical civilisation, but have (wisely?) chosen to drop that to four.
So did everyone who does PPE do history at A-Level? I know it is 'recommended' but is that basically a requirement?
Many thanks!


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

I did English lit, maths, further maths and economics and was fine. I asked tutors at multiple colleges before applying and they said it's best to have at least 1 'essay' subject, and that's the only reason history is listed as useful. You have English, so it's fine.
Howdy. Someone with similar circumstances has probably already posted, but I'm terrible at combing through big threads like this one.

I'm currently doing Maths, Physics, Politics, and Philosophy at AS level. I took these thinking they'd provide me with a nice variety of tools and scraps of experience; is this combination one which works well for the course? I'm planning on continuing all four subjects through A-level.

Also, are the reading lists on the Oxford site recommended? I know they're not going to spring a pop quiz on it in the interview -- as far as I know the books are there to bring you to grips to the fundamentals of the three disciplines. I've currently reading Ayer and I've got a queue of some books on the history of political thought and on economics. Would reading the exact texts outlined on the PPE page be a good idea anyway?

Sorry for the inundation of questions.
Original post by Expert #7451

Also, are the reading lists on the Oxford site recommended? I know they're not going to spring a pop quiz on it in the interview -- as far as I know the books are there to bring you to grips to the fundamentals of the three disciplines. I've currently reading Ayer and I've got a queue of some books on the history of political thought and on economics. Would reading the exact texts outlined on the PPE page be a good idea anyway?

Sorry for the inundation of questions.


I'm in two minds on this one. I guess getting a basic outline of what each subject might entail, and then simply understanding whether you might like that or not, is surely a good thing.

However, I wouldn't 1) delve too much into the actual syllabus as it's simply not needed and 2) read the same things all the other candidates are reading.

I did a really basic amount of reading on a few obvious areas (I read 'On Liberty', 'Freakonomics' and the like), and then did some extensive reading on a topic I wrote about on my PS.

So I wouldn't worry too much. Getting a basic grasp certainly isn't going to hurt, but they aren't going to expect any prior knowledge whatsoever (I knew nothing..).
A question about summer reading lists: do all colleges send these out? And for the colleges that do, how long are they usually and are people expected to have read everything on them?

As reading lists won't be sent until people have met their offers (or so I assume), I'm worried that there won't be enough time to get hold of and read everything between then and October if the list is long. I looked up Balliol's list online as it's the college underwriting my open offer and it seems disturbingly lengthy. :s-smilie:

Original post by Expert #7451
Howdy. Someone with similar circumstances has probably already posted, but I'm terrible at combing through big threads like this one.

I'm currently doing Maths, Physics, Politics, and Philosophy at AS level. I took these thinking they'd provide me with a nice variety of tools and scraps of experience; is this combination one which works well for the course? I'm planning on continuing all four subjects through A-level.

Also, are the reading lists on the Oxford site recommended? I know they're not going to spring a pop quiz on it in the interview -- as far as I know the books are there to bring you to grips to the fundamentals of the three disciplines. I've currently reading Ayer and I've got a queue of some books on the history of political thought and on economics. Would reading the exact texts outlined on the PPE page be a good idea anyway?

Sorry for the inundation of questions.


Your subjects are fine; don't worry about it. :smile:

I did the same as pinkpenguin and would second what she's said. I don't think it's a good idea to follow any recommended reading list too stringently. Use them as a guideline and pick and choose what you want to read out of them, but I think it's much more important to follow your interests so that you enjoy your reading and to distinguish yourself from your competitors.

I read some of the recommended introductory books and a couple of the easier to read classics (Utilitarianism, Social Contract, etc), but most of my reading consisted of less commonly known stuff that interested me.
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Original post by Koalagate
A question about summer reading lists: do all colleges send these out? And for the colleges that do, how long are they usually and are people expected to have read everything on them?

As reading lists won't be sent until people have met their offers (or so I assume), I'm worried that there won't be enough time to get hold of and read everything between then and October if the list is long. I looked up Balliol's list online as it's the college underwriting my open offer and it seems disturbingly lengthy. :s-smilie:


Some colleges send them for some subjects, after A-level results come out. You'll probably be able to get more specific advice from your college parents or someone doing your subject at your college, but the rule of thumb is that you don't need to read any of it, and you should focus on enjoying the summer instead. :smile:
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Bax-man
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Original post by Koalagate
A question about summer reading lists: do all colleges send these out? And for the colleges that do, how long are they usually and are people expected to have read everything on them?

As reading lists won't be sent until people have met their offers (or so I assume), I'm worried that there won't be enough time to get hold of and read everything between then and October if the list is long. I looked up Balliol's list online as it's the college underwriting my open offer and it seems disturbingly lengthy. :s-smilie:



There are plenty of reasons not to worry about your Summer reading lists. No one else will have read most of the books on there, so it won't be as if you're at an immediate disadvantage relative to your peers. I'm also not sure that even if you did read them over the Summer that it would benefit you when it came to writing essays: you will likely have forgotten most of the arguments anyway, and would need to reread it to absorb the material relevant to the essay. There's a particular 'way' of reading books that I've found useful, and that's difficult to learn before you get here.

The only texts where I'm more open to starting early are the more technical ones. The Logic Manual, for instance, can seem fearsome when you first pick it up, and I found so much of my time during Michaelmas was taken up by working my way through dense pages of formal logic. I can't help but feel that if I'd tried to read and understand the first few chapters before I came up, it might have made my life easier. Of course this is said with hindsight and I'm not sure that most people have the patience to make sense of the book without the accompanying lectures and tutorials, particularly if you've never read anything like it before.
Thank you all for the very helpful replies. :smile:

Also, when do PPEists generally get set their first essays? Do the tutors give you a few lectures and tutorials before sending you off to research and write them independently, or do they throw you straight into the deep end and make you do the latter ASAP?

Original post by Bax-man
The only texts where I'm more open to starting early are the more technical ones. The Logic Manual, for instance, can seem fearsome when you first pick it up, and I found so much of my time during Michaelmas was taken up by working my way through dense pages of formal logic. I can't help but feel that if I'd tried to read and understand the first few chapters before I came up, it might have made my life easier. Of course this is said with hindsight and I'm not sure that most people have the patience to make sense of the book without the accompanying lectures and tutorials, particularly if you've never read anything like it before.


Funnily enough, I just ordered The Logic Manual off the internet (it seemed interesting and I'd probably have to do so at some point anyway). :wink: I haven't had time to do more than glance over it but it doesn't seem too bad, possibly because my school material and (very basic) programming hobby have helped introduce me to the concepts. Curious to know - do Oxford do online lecture notes like some other universities?
Original post by Koalagate
Thank you all for the very helpful replies. :smile:

Also, when do PPEists generally get set their first essays? Do the tutors give you a few lectures and tutorials before sending you off to research and write them independently, or do they throw you straight into the deep end and make you do the latter ASAP?



Funnily enough, I just ordered The Logic Manual off the internet (it seemed interesting and I'd probably have to do so at some point anyway). :wink: I haven't had time to do more than glance over it but it doesn't seem too bad, possibly because my school material and (very basic) programming hobby have helped introduce me to the concepts. Curious to know - do Oxford do online lecture notes like some other universities?


If your college is anything like mine, you'll be set two assignments during 0th (freshers') week to complete for 1st week. Depending on what modules you're doing first, they'll either be worksheets, essays or one of each.

Some lecturers put their lecture notes up on Weblearn, but you won't have access to that for a while. The only slides I'm aware of that are up on a normal website are the logic ones: http://logicmanual.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/
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Bax-man
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Original post by Koalagate
Thank you all for the very helpful replies. :smile:

Also, when do PPEists generally get set their first essays? Do the tutors give you a few lectures and tutorials before sending you off to research and write them independently, or do they throw you straight into the deep end and make you do the latter ASAP?



Funnily enough, I just ordered The Logic Manual off the internet (it seemed interesting and I'd probably have to do so at some point anyway). :wink: I haven't had time to do more than glance over it but it doesn't seem too bad, possibly because my school material and (very basic) programming hobby have helped introduce me to the concepts. Curious to know - do Oxford do online lecture notes like some other universities?


You're thrown straight into the deep end. If I recall, in 0th week I was set the first chapter of the Manual, an essay on electoral systems and some admittedly rather rudimentary microeconomics. I didn't find it a baptism of fire, but it wasn't far off (and I did miss most of matriculash).

Ah, in that case you'll be fine. I suppose it's worth reading the first chapter and seeing how you find it. I think given its technical nature, if you can manage to grapple with some of the material, then that's not a bad thing.

Most lecturers either have a handout with a lecture plan or have slides on the internet. The economics department have them both online and distribute paper copies.

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