Turn on thread page Beta
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I'm up to debate 2moro proposing the motion 'this house would torture terrorists'

    Any ideas on the line of argument I can take

    so far

    -Terrorists deserve it
    - Civil liberties should not count as they broke other liberties
    - Only way to gain infomation

    cheers
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by corey)
    - Terrorists deserve it
    Ouch. Pretty much morally indefensible this one - the only gain would be of those who would take pleasure in such things, and a sadist's pleasure really shouldn't count morally.

    - Civil liberties should not count as they broke other liberties
    The whole point of civil liberties is that they apply to everyone. If they don't, then they're pretty much worthless.

    - Only way to gain information
    This one is more interesting, morally, at least. In theory, it could be justified on occasion, but it seems MUCH safer to have a general rule against such things, as in 99.9% of cases it would be wrong, and you could end up on a slippery slope.

    Think you'd do well to start out by defining "terrorist", too, as the assumed definition is logically incoherent.

    ie is it any violence not perpetrated by the state?

    or is it any violence that deliberately targets civilians?

    if it is either of these, explain why it is a morally important distinction.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    err... I'm not following you on the last point really, could you explain it to me please?

    I was perhaps thinking of saying on a ultilitarion basis it could be considered a moral action.

    I'm not really sure why / what is logically incoherant either.
    What would be the best way to define it to our advantage in the debate?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by corey)
    err... I'm not following you on the last point really, could you explain it to me please?

    I was perhaps thinking of saying on a utilitarian basis it could be considered a moral action.
    Yes - this is basically the point I was making.

    You can interpret utilitarianism in two ways, normally known as "act" (or "critical") and "rule" (or "intuitive"). With "act", you look at each individual situation and see whether it would be moral - in this case it could be seen to be. But, to look at each case morally is impractical, so "rule" utilitarianism would say that as in 99.9% of cases torture is wrong, therefore it is much safer to never torture.

    I'm not really sure why / what is logically incoherent either.
    What would be the best way to define it to our advantage in the debate?
    Umm...basically because it is used as a catch all phrase to describe all "on the other side" - and as a result of which it becomes very hard to pin down what it actually means.

    Say, for example, you define it as all violence perpetrated by all non-state forces. Yet, this doesn't fit with the imagery of "terrorist states" etc.

    Say you define it as all violence deliberately targeting civilians. But yet, this would seem to include the actions of the British and Americans in Vietnam, and implicitly in East Timor etc. But by the conventional definition, the people responsible are not terrorists.

    So it doesn't seem to make sense.

    If I were you, I'd not make a point of it being "terrorists" in particular, but just something less pejorative, like "people intent on causing unjustified harm".
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by corey)
    'this house would torture terrorists'
    ...by detaining them indefinately?

    Might be too close to the status quo, but it's worth thinking about.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tek)
    ...by detaining them indefinately?

    Might be too close to the status quo, but it's worth thinking about.
    The important thing is that you agree with the opposition that physical torture is wrong. It has to be some sort of torture that others would accept (can't think of any examples right now).

    Are you 1st prop or 2nd prop?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    2nd prop

    thanks llamma boy and tek, I'm unsure though might not physical torture be nessacary to gain infomation?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by corey)
    2nd prop

    thanks llamma boy and tek, I'm unsure though might not physical torture be nessacary to gain infomation?

    ahh terrorist, an alternative term is 'them', 'we' can never be terrorists no matter that 'we' do...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Out of interest, Corey, what style of debate do you do ? I've just started BP, where you only get told the motion 15 mins before the debate starts, which is a tad stressful. (:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by corey)
    I'm up to debate 2moro proposing the motion 'this house would torture terrorists'

    Any ideas on the line of argument I can take

    so far

    -Terrorists deserve it
    - Civil liberties should not count as they broke other liberties
    - Only way to gain infomation

    cheers
    Just finished watching 'Black Hawk Down', damn right they should torture terrorists, along with all the rapists and murderers out there. Why should somebody else suffer, whilst the perpetraitor is locked up, then released? (I know, I sound cynical, dont worry, it will pass).
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Torture them? Waste of time, money and manpower. Lock them all up in the same room and deprive them of food and water. Slow painful deaths (ultimate torture!) and probably good TV...
 
 
 
Poll
Who do you think it's more helpful to talk about mental health with?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.