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    (Original post by Misogynist)
    This is a question that is often avoided, but what kind of conditions would they be living in if that were the case? (Assume women can reproduce regardless.)
    OP, at what point in history would you say that oppression of women became 'minimal'? Certainly not 'post-1800s', if that is what you were implying.

    The insignificance of women in technological and scientific progress can largely be put down to oppression. I'll give the example of Oxford, which only allowed full membership for women in 1920. There continues to be a pay gap between males and females working in the same type of job.

    You seem keen to ignore any and all social pressures or expectations of women [why is a boy more likely to get a science kit for their birthday?], as if it they weren't relevant simply because LEGALLY everything is possible. I'd like to know why these are being ignored. Social engineering plays a major part in what professions girls and boys go into. A drive by the government to increase the number of women in the medical field has seen the number of female GPs go on to outnumber their male counterparts.
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    (Original post by Jonty99)
    Oh right, yeh I sort of thought that might be what you meant. Well I never mentioned "gender specific professions", but I suppose that was one of the things I may have been thinking of. Basically, if women are less aggressive, they may be better negotiators, if men are stronger, they will be better at manual labour. I just sort of meant pretty obvious stuff like that really, where the skills would be closely linked to the biological differences. I can't imagine, with all the biological differences, that men and women are exactly as good as each other at every single thing.
    I agree with the manual labour, because men are usually physically stronger. But I disagree with women possibly making better negotiators. It is foolish to generalise a whole gender and work on the assumption that each gender has inherent characteristics which mean it is better able to perform a task.
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    Licking each others nipples clearly. And making fake sperm.
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    (Original post by Reaver)
    I hate feminist propaganda... it's not perpetuated.
    Also, you're proving his point.
    There just isn't equality, ever.
    Equality means equal opportunites and and end to gender based discrimination. Why can there never be equality?
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    I agree with the manual labour, because men are usually physically stronger. But I disagree with women possibly making better negotiators. It is foolish to generalise a whole gender and work on the assumption that each gender has inherent characteristics which mean it is better able to perform a task.
    Yeah I said "may be" better negotiators, because whilst that may not be definite, it is likely that they are different at something than males as they seem to be less aggressive (probably due to hormones, I dunno lol).
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    WW2 wouldn't have happened.
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    (Original post by Clements-)
    That's what I figured as well. I couldn't work out how people are coming to the conclusion that we'd be somehow worse.
    not only did men invent most things but they also made them. without miners a couple of hundred years ago, the technology today would be far behind what it is now

    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    Equality means equal opportunites and and end to gender based discrimination. Why can there never be equality?
    because men and woman aren't born equal
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    Equality means equal opportunites and and end to gender based discrimination. Why can there never be equality?
    Which already exists. You probably have an IQ of 5.
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    (Original post by Tombola)
    GEDER!
    what?
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    (Original post by Jonty99)
    Perhaps the examination system favours the female brain. :p:
    (Original post by PrinceValiant)
    If it were the other way about women would be crying discrimination!

    Any walk of life which women dominate it's because "men are just ****"

    Any walk of life which men dominate it's because "men are big bad bullies :cry: "
    A) Those are both appalling arguments.

    B) Explain to me how exactly it might favour a female brain because I personally don't see it. Besides, that would be dependent on what subjects people take, the education level they reach. The statistics are based on the highest level of education per gender, the value of each attainment i.e. 2:1 at degree and so on. It's been shown that now they outperform males at every level and I find it difficult to believe this is anything to do with a system favouring a particular gender, especially since people don't have strictly 'female' or 'male' brains.

    C) How is discrimination even relevant there? Discrimination would be if they were both achieving the same qualifications yet one was chosen for a job over another. Or if one was unjustly refused an education based on their gender. Women outperforming men in education has nothing to do with discrimination since it's just a fact, nothing to do with bias and such.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    Equality means equal opportunites and and end to gender based discrimination. Why can there never be equality?
    Equality creates stagnantation. One entity always dominates other.
    Also, that's not equality, that's making social changes in favour of one of the sexes. Equality of gender would mean to me, equal mental and physical capabilities accross the board for men and women. It's just not so.
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    (Original post by nowheree)
    not only did men invent most things but they also made them. without miners a couple of hundred years ago, the technology today would be far behind what it is now



    because men and woman aren't born equal
    Yes, the point is who's to say that women wouldn't take the initiative to invent them?
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    (Original post by Clements-)
    A) Those are both appalling arguments.

    B) Explain to me how exactly it might favour a female brain because I personally don't see it. Besides, that would be dependent on what subjects people take, the education level they reach. The statistics are based on the highest level of education per gender, the value of each attainment i.e. 2:1 at degree and so on. It's been shown that now they outperform males at every level and I find it difficult to believe this is anything to do with a system favouring a particular gender, especially since people don't have strictly 'female' or 'male' brains.

    C) How is discrimination even relevant there? Discrimination would be if they were both achieving the same qualifications yet one was chosen for a job over another. Or if one was unjustly refused an education based on their gender. Women outperforming men in education has nothing to do with discrimination since it's just a fact, nothing to do with bias and such.
    If they are actually out performing males at every level, why are males still the world leaders in basically every field?

    Why do males make all the discoveries and hold all the high positions in their respective areas?
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    (Original post by Clements-)
    A) Those are both appalling arguments.

    B) Explain to me how exactly it might favour a female brain because I personally don't see it. Besides, that would be dependent on what subjects people take, the education level they reach. The statistics are based on the highest level of education per gender, the value of each attainment i.e. 2:1 at degree and so on. It's been shown that now they outperform males at every level and I find it difficult to believe this is anything to do with a system favouring a particular gender, especially since people don't have strictly 'female' or 'male' brains.

    C) How is discrimination even relevant there? Discrimination would be if they were both achieving the same qualifications yet one was chosen for a job over another. Or if one was unjustly refused an education based on their gender. Women outperforming men in education has nothing to do with discrimination since it's just a fact, nothing to do with bias and such.
    I've certainly read an article in some newspaper (it was ages ago) that females do better in exams, because, well, they're better at exams (but not necessarily more intelligent). Perhaps females are better at memorisation (basically the key feature of exams), but males are better at applying their knowledge?

    This wasn't the article I'm thinking of, but it suggests how things other than intelligence are responsible. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...s-1416737.html

    And it's no more appalling an argument that the old "females were oppressed" one. Females are no longer oppressed. Where are the female world leaders?
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    (Original post by Clements-)
    You do know that women actually outstrip males in educational performance now, right?
    Incorrect! Women have more people attending university, the quality of the course however tends to be lower. Women tend to be over represented in social sciences and other soft subjects. Whereas men may have a smaller percentage of people in higher education they are more prevalent in science engineering and maths. Also men out perform women in post graduate studies.

    So you are wrong!
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    By the way - Men consistently have always outdone women on standardised large sample IQ tests with no gender bias. Always. I think the most recent study (2007) indicated a 5 point lead.
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    (Original post by Clements-)
    Yes, the point is who's to say that women wouldn't take the initiative to invent them?
    yes, i understand what you're saying and there's no way to know for sure if they would've invented what men invented. but the point i was trying to make is that they would have needed miners etc for mass production and transport
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    (Original post by Misogynist)
    Which already exists. You probably have an IQ of 5.
    I am questioning the posters statement that equality can't ever happen. In terms of legislation, I think equality has been achieved to a great extent, although insidious remnants do exist. It is contemptible that you cannot express yourself without resorting to childish insults - "you probably have an IQ of 5".
    How witty ...
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    I am questioning the posters statement that equality can't ever happen. In terms of legislation, I think equality has been achieved to a great extent, although insidious remnants do exist. It is contemptible that you cannot express yourself without resorting to childish insults - "you probably have an IQ of 5".
    How witty ...
    I'm not trying to be witty. I actually believe that.
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    (Original post by Misogynist)
    By the way - Men consistently have always outdone women on standardised large sample IQ tests with no gender bias. Always. I think the most recent study (2007) indicated a 5 point lead.

    Well, females will argue that IQ tests are biased towards males. Strange how they won't argue that as women do better in public exams, public exams must be biased towards women...
 
 
 
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