Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jrhartley)
    The main issue and reason that architects are poor is vanity. They want to have people believe they are amazing. So they will say 'yeah, take that design / model / drawing. that only took me an hour to do'. It will in fact have taken them 3 days to do, but they want to look amazing and able, so they lie about the time they consecrated to the work. As a consequence, they get paid for an hours work, not the three days it really took.

    vanity. that is the reason. utter stupidity, to be worried more about how 'able' people view you than actually be truthful and get paid accordingly.
    Is it not also the case that maybe, being artistic types as oppossed to hard nosed business types, they are embarrassed about asking for 30 hours worth of fees rather than 1?

    Bad salesmanship can only be one factor amongst others.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Do you think it may become more respected in the future and the pay will ever improve?..
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I wouldn't say most are poor, most seem fairly comfortable.

    I've never seen architecture as something you do for the money though. I did it because i want to design buildings and structures and create space, not for the money, i would of hoped most people would feel the same way.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArtNiki)
    Do you think it may become more respected in the future and the pay will ever improve?..
    No.
    Why ?
    Because the universities are churning out architecture students far faster than the profession can absorb them.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jrhartley)
    low barriers to entry?
    I guess that I have to spell it out for you.:rolleyes:

    The intellectual demands of architecture are a lot less than the intellectual demands of courses like Law, Medicine, Physics or Mathematics.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugestuge)
    I guess that I have to spell it out for you.:rolleyes:

    The intellectual demands of architecture are a lot less than the intellectual demands of courses like Law, Medicine, Physics or Mathematics.
    And you base this on what, exactly? You've studied all of them then?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugestuge)
    I guess that I have to spell it out for you.:rolleyes:

    The intellectual demands of architecture are a lot less than the intellectual demands of courses like Law, Medicine, Physics or Mathematics.
    Yoda has come to preach his hypothetical bs, but ironically can’t even tell the difference between intellect and a bull’s right balls. You probably presume it’s based on an ‘examinations’ and some Mickey Mouse a-levels.

    If your principle is intellect = +/- barriers to entry and course's demand of you, then understand this. Intellect stretched way beyond mickeymouse school degrees and some examinations and assignments (which, you might be surprised to find, that most subjects also have- how odd). It goes to the realms of epistemology and reasoning (or what Philosophers would argue anyway), encompasses various branches: bodily-kinesthetic, Interpersonal, Verbal-linguistic, Logical-mathematical, Naturalistic, Intrapersonal, Visual-spatial and Musical intelligence. How many of those do you think Law, Maths, Physics and Medicine ‘require’ as opposed to Architecture, even just to ‘gain entry’?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugestuge)
    I guess that I have to spell it out for you.:rolleyes:

    The intellectual demands of architecture are a lot less than the intellectual demands of courses like Law, Medicine, Physics or Mathematics.
    I guess you are a moron if you think like that.

    and before you get on your high horse thinking you know how the world is, trust me, you don't. I'm willing to bet, having worked at a top tier investment bank for 8 years before studying architecture and knowing a lot of lawyers and doctors that its about on par. Do feel free to share with us your wide-reaching experience that allows you to make such brash, sweeping statements.

    Best maybe you go and troll somewhere else, perhaps somewhere where you know what you're on about?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugestuge)
    I guess that I have to spell it out for you.:rolleyes:

    The intellectual demands of architecture are a lot less than the intellectual demands of courses like Law, Medicine, Physics or Mathematics.
    Nonsense. Troll.

    Architecture, if studied rigorously and to a good standard, demands a huge range of intellectual abilities and one more thing: CREATIVITY.

    Besides this does not really explain the income gap when applied to careers.

    Are stock brokers typically carrying out more intellectual tasks than Engineers? No, but they are paid more.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugestuge)
    No.
    Why ?
    Because the universities are churning out architecture students far faster than the profession can absorb them.
    Wow really, that surprises me, I only know one other person at my school who is thinking of architecture. Its supposed to have a high drop out rate aswell.. I just didnt think it would be that popular.
    But i guess especially now with the credit crunch, not many people are needing an architect!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    ArtNiki - I'd suggest you ignore the ramblings of flugestuge - he's clearly bored and looking to provoke a reaction. The fact is that there are too many students in all subjects pretty much - in fact, there are too many people on the earth if you want to take it to its logical conclusion. But shy of a widespread human cull, things will carry on. There are good and bad candidates in every walk of life, don't worry about the doom-mongers - the reality is that architecture is one of the broadest, most interesting and challenging subjects there is - you need to know a little about a huge number of things, you need to be able to work well with people, be well organised and be creative. Its a bit more difficult that being a lawyer, say, whereby you are just doing your same specialisation day in, day out. Go with you passion, that's what counts, don't be corporate slave and worry about salary. Most architects are not greedy, and value things more than just cash in the bank.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Ok thanks! Im sure that as I love being creative, organising things and am hardworking, that if I enjoy architecture I wont care about the salary. I could definitely not do the same thing every day!!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jrhartley)
    I guess you are a moron if you think like that.

    and before you get on your high horse thinking you know how the world is, trust me, you don't. I'm willing to bet, having worked at a top tier investment bank for 8 years before studying architecture and knowing a lot of lawyers and doctors that its about on par. Do feel free to share with us your wide-reaching experience that allows you to make such brash, sweeping statements.

    Best maybe you go and troll somewhere else, perhaps somewhere where you know what you're on about?
    jrhartley, how old are you?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jelli-bean)
    jrhartley, how old are you?
    old enough to know better than to have allowed myself have risen to flugestuge's bait....

    you can pretty much figure it out, starting work at 21 in an investment bank after first degree, then a bit of dossing around for a couple of years, then four years of architecture.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jrhartley)
    old enough to know better than to have allowed myself have risen to flugestuge's bait....

    you can pretty much figure it out, starting work at 21 in an investment bank after first degree, then a bit of dossing around for a couple of years, then four years of architecture.
    ahh, no wonder you are so wise!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by niceguy21)
    I am asking why is it that so very, very few people become wealthy in this profession as opposed to other creative industries such as advertising, where a start-up can become very profitable within 10 years.

    There is nothing wrong with being happy on £75k, but for somebody with an entreprenurial bent the question must be asked: what is wrong with this industry? The architect in question has an exceedingly tough time running her company with all the constraints that appear to face her everyday.

    Maybe if people like yourself stood up for themselves and started to fight for their share your proffession would not be in such poverty and there would'nt be so many jobless graduates.
    Actually you couldn't fathom why she didn't much care for indiscriminately raking in as much cash as possible and, rather narrowly, put it down to her lacking leadership, numeracy and self promotion skills. I was simply making a counter argument that some people simply aren't motivated by money, therefore as long as the business is serving the desired purpose then its not really a big problem is it?

    Your personal attack on me and 'people like me' is an interesting one, as you have no idea who I am and what I believe. Your knowledge of the profession is laughably shallow and while money is a factor, it is one of many many reasons the profession is in its current state. I refuse to accept that the jobless graduates are solely a product of bad professional organisation - because I can assure you, contractors and developers are as hard-nosed and business minded as is possible to be and its not like they've weathered the recession particularly well... is it?

    As you say, maybe architecture isn't for you. While you're sobbing over gothic Oxford, why don't you have a think about the tight budgetary constraints, health and safety legislation, approved codes of practice and the business model of the master stone mason. Or could it be that you're comparing apples with oranges? Just a thought.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jrhartley)
    The main issue and reason that architects are poor is vanity. They want to have people believe they are amazing. So they will say 'yeah, take that design / model / drawing. that only took me an hour to do'. It will in fact have taken them 3 days to do, but they want to look amazing and able, so they lie about the time they consecrated to the work. As a consequence, they get paid for an hours work, not the three days it really took.

    vanity. that is the reason. utter stupidity, to be worried more about how 'able' people view you than actually be truthful and get paid accordingly.
    No offence mate, but thats ********!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by frainy_180)
    No offence mate, but thats ********!
    really? tell me: how you can be so sure?

    how you can know my opinion, formed through working for and knowledge of many 100s of architects, is bs?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    im going to study architecture because i want to be an architect. i dont really care about the money as long as im happy and not homeless.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    This good article I have found, explains the basics of a Practice's business model and the profit margin expected (7-9% median).

    http://www.canadianarchitect.com/iss...issue=06012003
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Have you ever participated in a Secret Santa?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.