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    (Original post by a_girl_called_john)
    im going to study architecture because i want to be an architect. i dont really care about the money as long as im happy and not homeless.
    This is my view, aslong as I have enough to live and persue some hobbies in my spare time, I'm set.
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    (Original post by Skies)
    This is my view, aslong as I have enough to live and persue some hobbies in my spare time, I'm set.
    its the way things should be. granted having a huge disposable income would be fun its not a nescecity. i dont get some of the people in my year who are like " oh im going to be a (insert career here) its gonna be sweet im gonna be loaded".
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    Hah, Indeed Architects are poor compared to other professionals. This is because the start out their career with the idea that it's one of the arts, they lurrrrve it, they do it for the love, theywant to create something amazing.....All great things however; they work lots of overtime, don't get paid and don't appear to mind that...because they love it, right!!
    Problem is, after 10 to 15 years of working hard like that with little reward financially or indeed otherwise, it's too late to change....there's other little young architects coming in to do the exact same thing, work for free, work overtime etc. etc. You cannot command a good salary in architecture because of this. They do it to themselves....they under-cut to get work, they don't usually operate solely to make large profits. Although the job of an architect is very difficult, it is never rewarded financially the way it should be.....DONT BE AN ARCHITECT if you want money.....Be an oil & gas project manager or something like that!!
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    A bunch of average earnings I found from multiple sources:-

    Average Earnings
    £500,000+ Sector Team Leader (Banking) Performance related earnings
    £428,000 Barrister (QC)
    £327,000 Senior Partner (Legal)
    £300,000+ Stock/FX Trader (Banking) Performance related earnings
    £250,000+ Investment Analyst (Banking) Performance related earnings
    £236,000 Solicitor (Corporate)
    £232,000 Solicitor (Intellectual Property)
    £219,000 Consultant Doctor (Private)
    £211,000 General Practitioner - [Private Practice] Partner [Large]£185,000 Partner (Legal)
    £146,000 Barrister
    £132,000 General Practitioner - [Private Practice] Partner [Small]
    £122,000 Junior Partner (Legal)
    £120,000 Senior Partner (Architecture)
    £104,000 Partner (Architecture)
    £94,000 Consultant Doctor (NHS)
    £83,000 Barrister (CPS)
    £81,000 Associate (Legal)
    £66,000 Staff Doctor (NHS)
    £60,000+ General Practitioner
    £59,000 Associate (Architecture)
    £52,000 Graduate (MD) Doctor
    £48,000 Graduate Solicitor (LLB)(Corporate Sector)
    £47,000 Architect
    £42,000 Solicitor (General / State)
    £30,000 Architecture Graduate (BArch or equivalent)
    £27,000 Graduate Solicitor (LLB)(Highstreet firm)
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    £30K for a B.Arch architect - i.e. Part I - forget about it. Best pay in London for working all hours at Fosters (9AM until midnight) is about £22K. Most London practises pay about £18-19K for Part 1s. Outside of London you're looking at £15k-19K average Part 1. Most Part IIs - you'll be lucky to get £25k.


    obviously the big proviso to all that is if you can actually find a job in the first place
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    £30K for a B.Arch architect - i.e. Part I - forget about it. Best pay in London for working all hours at Fosters (9AM until midnight) is about £22K. Most London practises pay about £18-19K for Part 1s. Outside of London you're looking at £15k-19K average Part 1. Most Part IIs - you'll be lucky to get £25k.


    obviously the big proviso to all that is if you can actually find a job in the first place
    Grim stats lets face it.

    I like to think enterprising individuals with sufficient talent, can aim to make £100k p.a by mid-to-late thirties. Some of the young successes I know spend a good proportion of their time teaching and heading up commitees/art panels of interest etc. If they diverted this towards purely bringing clients/networking (I know there is some cross-over) they could easily edge over the £100k mark.

    The problem is maybe though that to do really innovative stuff ties you to academia and research, so little of your time on commerically rewarding work (often boring--- even Foster's projects are mainly boring commissions).

    Hey, JR hope you are well. I remember talking before with you about Zumthor.
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    The real problem is that we have too many zombie businesses in the world still propped up by virtually free capital. if some of the non-viable businesses were allowed to go under, rents would come down, property prices would come down, etc, so there would be the opportunity for a bit of creative rebirth and new practises could emerge, perhaps doing development as well as design. instead young architects get exhausted working all hours for established players in order just to cover their massive costs of living. Its a scam alright - working longer and longer for a lower quality of living.

    i think 100k by mid 30s as an architect is bonkers. bear in mind the majority of architects won't have part 3 until they are 30, and then will be working for someone for a few years beyond that - so on £45k max until 35. the step to go alone is a massive one and it will take a long time to build up a client base in order to get that sort of income to take £100k in salary.

    that's my thoughts, anyway.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    The real problem is that we have too many zombie businesses in the world still propped up by virtually free capital. if some of the non-viable businesses were allowed to go under, rents would come down, property prices would come down, etc, so there would be the opportunity for a bit of creative rebirth and new practises could emerge, perhaps doing development as well as design. instead young architects get exhausted working all hours for established players in order just to cover their massive costs of living. Its a scam alright - working longer and longer for a lower quality of living.

    i think 100k by mid 30s as an architect is bonkers. bear in mind the majority of architects won't have part 3 until they are 30, and then will be working for someone for a few years beyond that - so on £45k max until 35. the step to go alone is a massive one and it will take a long time to build up a client base in order to get that sort of income to take £100k in salary.

    that's my thoughts, anyway.

    Is £100k really that bonkers? I'm not saying the average person will do this, but maybe top 5% say.. though perhaps your right... a £100k profit works out as £4M in projects size for a firm with a standard 10% commission, 25% profit margin.. this could be achievable if you managed to get a really high profile commission.

    Agree with you on general economic sentiments though. I think architecture at least allows you to escape this country's inflated prices. You can work anywhere as an architect.
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    (Original post by niceguy21)
    Agree with you on general economic sentiments though. I think architecture at least allows you to escape this country's inflated prices. You can work anywhere as an architect.
    unfortunately not the case due to regional restrictions. more importantly though, phoney monetary policy, thanks to the imf and eu is now pretty much a global phenomenon, with the exception of a few places (like north korea).
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    To earn big money in architecture you either need to be a big person at a big firm that charges big fee's and employs students+low paid minions.

    or

    Be in a medium to high position at a commercial firm that employs students+low paid minions and that builds big pile's of ***** because they are more concerned about their fee's than producing good architecture.* They tend to tell you that their work/life balance is good but what they mean is yes our clients actually know best and we've sold out. Do you want to see my 6 series?

    Your choice although I'd say it's easier to earn money throwing up big piles of ***** that it is to produce good architecture.

    *Only applies to 1999-2007 because now everyone's unemployed.
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    does the pay depend on where you graduate?
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    (Original post by hanhaoha)
    does the pay depend on where you graduate?
    Probably not, it usually depends on how good you are and how quickly you can move up the career ladder within a company [which could be aided by the Uni that you went to].

    @ jrhartley
    Usually I agree with most of your posts when I am browsing the forums, but would probably disagree with you in the respect that £100k earnings for mid-late thirties architect is "bonkers!". Whilst working in property development and also for a number of main contractors, I have worked with over twenty different architectural practices and a bunch of them have had 30-something year old partners earning between £80k-£150k a year....
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    (Original post by wannabePhD)
    Whilst working in property development and also for a number of main contractors, I have worked with over twenty different architectural practices and a bunch of them have had 30-something year old partners earning between £80k-£150k a year....
    wannabeePHd - not to sound rude, but frankly anyone, architect, dentist, monkey, moron could have made £150k over the past decade by buying and selling property, without even bothering with the development part. The phoney cash has run out now, so those type of returns aren't really viable. Here's some examples from my pre-architect life:

    Bought my first flat in 1996 for £105k. £20K deposit, £85k mortgage on my salary of £30k. Sold in 1999 for £235k. I make £130k on my deposit of £20k initial equity.

    Bought my second flat in 1999 for £350k, sold in 2002 for £530k, making me another £180k.

    No skill on my part (other than a bit of site selection) - largely luck at buying in a rising market. Easy money. Now that's all changed - even with value added architectural design you could end up getting shafted by rising interest rates, double-dip recession and be stuck with a huge liability.

    Look at what happened in Spain. Everyone thought property development was a license to print cash.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    wannabeePHd - not to sound rude, but frankly anyone, architect, dentist, monkey, moron could have made £150k over the past decade by buying and selling property, without even bothering with the development part.
    I think you misinterpreted my post... I just mean that in my experience in working for property developers and main contractors, I have employed architects that I know are earning in the region of £100k, its not uncommon and a bunch of them are in their mid-thirties. We have never gone on joint ventures with architects, so the implication that they have made this as part of the profits due to being involved with property development is fundamentally inaccurate.
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    I find all this interesting of course money doesn't really matter in the end as long as you are happy with your job and find it still fresh.
    I can't really speculate having only done three years in architectural technology and I still have to start my Architecture course in September.
    One of the reasons I am pursuing this career to the end, apart from being fascinated with architecture, is that I want to roll out of bed in the morning not feeling depressed about work, but to be happy that I have a good job that I enjoy which is stimulating, ever changing and challenging.
    Money of course will not make you happy however it is needed and the pay check should reflect the amount of work you have put in to you studies to get there.
    This dosen't seem to be the case unfortunately. People motivated by money and massive bonuses should really consider Law, Banking, Stock Market etc... not Architecture.
    Can I ask some of the people who have been awarded Part 1, what experience did you go on to do?
    Did you stay for just the minimum one year or longer? Whats was the pay like? Was it enough for basic living?
    Do practices welcome students generally or is it difficult finding this placement?
    I am curious because the next step for me is after the Part 1 and even tho its 3 years minimum down the road I feel myself getting anxious.
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    (Original post by FeargMoran)
    I
    Can I ask some of the people who have been awarded Part 1, what experience did you go on to do?
    Did you stay for just the minimum one year or longer? Whats was the pay like? Was it enough for basic living?
    Do practices welcome students generally or is it difficult finding this placement?
    I worked in a smallish practise in Hampshire, largely as a CAD monkey. £18k a year, just about covered the bills and a bit to go out, but really its break even. Then the firm laid off 1/3 of its staff and I was one of them, so that meant overall as I was locked into rent until the end of my contract I was about £3K down on the year.

    Its hard getting a placement. Most people probably sent off between 50-100 applications with portfolios and CVs. In my experience (and those of my friends) you can expect to hear back from about 25% of the firms you contact with either a polite 'thanks but no thanks' or invitation to interview (under 5% of jobs your apply for). 75% of firms don't acknowledge your letter or contact you to say no thanks. So that's quite expensive and a bit demoralising.

    A lot of Part 1s are consequently now working for free in order to get the experience required (there was an article on BD about this which was reposted on this forum).

    As you say, we didn't go into this to be on silly salaries, but its nice not to be in deficit from working....
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    I don't really mind a non high paying job as long as I enjoy what I do.
    What I'm most scared of is just losing interest in architecture as you go along, and then you realise the low-pay issue then I'll feel like a hundred percent ******
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    (Original post by ArtNiki)
    Id be happy with 75-100k, is that common in architecture? Would you need to own your own business for that amount?
    If you're in it for the money don't bother. To get to the stage where you're earning that much you'd have to love the profession and be really good at it. I'd suggest finding something you really enjoy and do that, don't look for a highly paid career. Or if you really just want to earn money, become a banker.
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    (Original post by emmie393)
    If you're in it for the money don't bother. To get to the stage where you're earning that much you'd have to love the profession and be really good at it. I'd suggest finding something you really enjoy and do that, don't look for a highly paid career. Or if you really just want to earn money, become a banker.
    I'm not doing architecture for the money, I'm not a very materialistic person. I was just interested in knowing more about it.
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    (Original post by ArtNiki)
    I'm not doing architecture for the money, I'm not a very materialistic person. I was just interested in knowing more about it.
    It's just that you said "I'd be happy with 75-100k", which is totally unrealistic for architecture.

    I'm not a very materialistic person either, but there does come a point where reality kicks in and working for minimum wage (that's if you can find a job in the first place) after spending thousands of pounds on an extremely long and stressful course seems less appealing.
 
 
 
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