Turn on thread page Beta

Breaking News-5 more soldiers killed watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugelr)
    So if you saw a 10 year old being beaten by two adults would would never on any account step in as there is always risk to yourself?

    Sometimes the risk is worth the potential outcome.
    I don't see it in that way really. I see it in the same way as a disease. If a person has a disease then I would not attempt to cure them if there was a risk of myself contracting it. I wouldn't think it my responsibility to 'step in'. You can't reduce world diplomacy to the level of petty playground bullying.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Varsity)
    In the hope of stopping things like 7/7
    No afghan has EVER attacked America...No single afghan has EVER attacked the United Kingdom. We have no reason to be in that hell hole
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Is there hope in what they're fighting for?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugelr)
    So you think that the human race shouldn't stand as one?

    At home or at school, if you see an innocent person getting bullied, forced to live in a manner that is unfair, having their lives ruled by others who upset them; do you step in and say, "No. This is wrong. Stop!" or do you stand and watch and do nothing because it doesn't concern you?

    I think it is a great thing that the world's powers with the capability to combat people who force others to live in suffering, employ that capability not only to rid the suffering of their pain, but also to train the local forces to combat the evil themselves.

    We should not sit and watch others suffer because they are not on our own soil. The whole world should employ whatever strength they have available to rid the world of evil and suffering.
    That's one of the problems - the UK doesn't have the capability to fight two wars like we are now. The notion that we have one of the best equipped armed forces in the world is quite frankly a load of crap.
    Yes, we have nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers and state-of-the-art fighter jets, but what good are they at combatting roadside bombs in Afghanistan, where our soldiers are actually being killed and being put in danger?!
    The fact that the government seems more interested in replacing nuclear weapons than giving our actively engaged forces Chinook helicopters and armoured vehicles (i.e. what they need) is a prime example of our military expenditure being completely mismanaged.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Student2806)
    That's one of the problems - the UK doesn't have the capability to fight two wars like we are now. The notion that we have one of the best equipped armed forces in the world is quite frankly a load of crap.
    Yes, we have nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers and state-of-the-art fighter jets, but what good are they at combatting roadside bombs in Afghanistan, where our soldiers are actually being killed and being put in danger?!
    The fact that the government seems more interested in replacing nuclear weapons than giving our actively engaged forces Chinook helicopters and armoured vehicles (i.e. what they need) is a prime example of our military expenditure being completely mismanaged.
    I concur. Currently the US have over 120 Chinooks in Helmand and Kandahar alone.

    We have 8-10 (depending on how many under repair) servicable ones in Helmand.

    Lord Guthrie was right in saying that Labour have spent as little as they possibly can on defence.
    Offline

    2
    (Original post by nexttime)
    Also much better placed to limit heroin production, though not much seems to happen on that front.
    Not much can be done. The Afghan warlords who the Coalition need to have on their side so that they can actually hunt down the Taliban are the ones who are in most cases producing heroine in large quantities. If the Coalition mess up what is essentially their livelihood (and the livelihood of many other ordinary Afghans) then the warlords will start supporting the Taliban who allowed them to produce in the first place.

    Note: I certainly do not support it but if it saves the lives of our troops and means we can kill some more insurgents I'm happy.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Soldiers die. Get over it. They knew what the risk was when they signed up.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DuckBilledPlatypus)
    No afghan has EVER attacked America...No single afghan has EVER attacked the United Kingdom. We have no reason to be in that hell hole
    That's a very narrow view and you know it.

    The fact is many terrorists were trained in Afghanistan and the Taliban let terrorists have a free hand.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paxdax)
    Soldiers die. Get over it. They knew what the risk was when they signed up.
    They did, and you know the risks that you would face if people were not brave enough to risk their lives for your freedom and protection.

    Have some respect.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Well it was to be expected. I'm not saying whether or not we should be in Afghanistan, I don't know any of the details of the arguements for and against but this was the start of the (I think) the largest offensive in Taleban held territory yet.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    I'm sure when they sign up, they must know they run the risk of dying...It's their job, people can't expect all the soldiers to survive, some have to die.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Varsity)
    They did, and you know the risks that you would face if people were not brave enough to risk their lives for your freedom and protection.

    Have some respect.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I respect the soldiers alright, and quite a lot at that.

    I just don't respect the whiners in this thread.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Missmeem)
    I'm sure when they sign up, they must know they run the risk of dying...It's their job, people can't expect all the soldiers to survive, some have to die.
    Indeed, I am a soldier myself and I was aware of the risk before I joined and it is hammered into us when we join.

    It is however frankly a little offensive that people place so little value of a soldiers life, there are many other dangerous jobs in the world, for example the police and firemen who's lives seem far more important to the general public for some reason.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Varsity)
    Indeed, I am a soldier myself and I was aware of the risk before I joined and it is hammered into us when we join.

    It is however frankly a little offensive that people place so little value of a soldiers life, there are many other dangerous jobs in the world, for example the police and firemen who's lives seem far more important to the general public for some reason.
    Thing is, people start baying after the politicians' blood after a mere handful of soldiers have died. They in turn place restrictions on you. Not for your sake, but to save face. How much easier does this make your job? To be hindered and undermanned, so that the public at home can feel a little better? I can't respect such a public.

    I dread the thought that we would ever have to fight a real war, a war that endangered the very existence of our nations, ever again. How could we ever defend ourselves with the public there to stop the soldiers doing their work?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maths-enthusiast)
    Britain shouldn't even have been there in the first place.

    By violating international law and respect for sovereignity of nations, the 'can of worms' has been opened. Any strong enough military power with sufficient political and economic backing can do as they wish with smaller or weaker powers in conventional military terms.
    What violation of international law would that be? The intervention in Afghanistan was authorised by the UN.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by londonboym)
    i think we need to stay there. the minute well pull out of afghanistan, the taliban and other extremists will gain power, which could make the risk of an attack on our own soil more likely.

    i do think that we need to change the way we fight though. the rules of engagement are screwing us over.
    I totally agree, we don't want to end up like Switzerland who get bombed every day due to their foreign policy!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by flugelr)
    So you think that the human race shouldn't stand as one?

    At home or at school, if you see an innocent person getting bullied, forced to live in a manner that is unfair, having their lives ruled by others who upset them; do you step in and say, "No. This is wrong. Stop!" or do you stand and watch and do nothing because it doesn't concern you?

    I think it is a great thing that the world's powers with the capability to combat people who force others to live in suffering, employ that capability not only to rid the suffering of their pain, but also to train the local forces to combat the evil themselves.

    We should not sit and watch others suffer because they are not on our own soil. The whole world should employ whatever strength they have available to rid the world of evil and suffering.

    That is an incredibly naive argument. The situation in Afghanistan is a hell of a lot more complicated than you seem to believe.

    "We" decided to invade Afghanistan to hunt Osama Bin Laden. But "surprise surprise", just like the WMD's in Iraq we couldn't find him, so our mission changed, now we were driving out an evil opressive regime, nation building, and giving those desperate Afghans our special brand of freedom. (hmmm, reminds me of Iraq).

    After driving out those nasty bullies you mention in your example, we install a government of our choosing, who are pretty much the Taliban in disguise. The laws they have been introducing in regards to women etc.. are just disgraceful and make a mockery out of our troops who are fighting and dying under the illusion that they are helping these people. How many more service families are going to have to lose a son, a father or a mother, before the British public see through our Governments lies?

    It takes just one glimpse into the history of Afghanistan, to realise that what we are trying to do right now is futile and has been attempted countless times in the past.

    When we do eventually pull out of Afghanistan, it wont be long before the country is split once again into tribal factions and alliances. The British troops who lost their lives in the sand will be nothing but a memory, just like all those young Russian men who fought and died trying to bring foreign values to an intensely proud people.

    If we were going to catch Bin Laden it would have happened by now. The best option would be to withdraw, to stop throwing money at a lost cause, and to bring our boys and girls home.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paxdax)
    Soldiers die. Get over it. They knew what the risk was when they signed up.
    They also were far better people than you can ever hope to be, yes, they knew the risk, but being prepared to take that risk alone deserves respect.

    Many of the freedoms you enjoy today are from the same sort of people, soldier's don't choose the wars they fight, the politicians do. They still risk their lives.

    Again, each and everyone one of them were better persons than you.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aeolus)
    That is an incredibly naive argument. The situation in Afghanistan is a hell of a lot more complicated than you seem to believe.
    Its true that Afghanistan is very complicated but I have problems with some of the things you have said.

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    "We" decided to invade Afghanistan to hunt Osama Bin Laden. But "surprise surprise", just like the WMD's in Iraq we couldn't find him, so our mission changed, now we were driving out an evil oppressive regime, nation building, and giving those desperate Afghans our special brand of freedom. (hmmm, reminds me of Iraq).
    Getting Bin Laden was always a secondary objective (if that), the objective was and always has been to deny terrorists a safe haven and a training ground.

    Also lets put this Iraq WMD thing to bed right this second, because far too many people on this forum roll out the Iraq/WMD argument at every opportunity and make themselves look like fools.

    Its true that no large scale WMD capability was found in Iraq, like that Iraq had in the Iraq Iran war, there were however many Chemical and biological shells found, exactly the sort of things used at Halabja, proving Iraq still has a WMD capability.
    Honestly look into it folks, because your all being brainwashed by a press that likes selling newspapers with 'NO WMD's AFTER X YEARS' on the front cover.


    (Original post by Aeolus)
    After driving out those nasty bullies you mention in your example, we install a government of our choosing, who are pretty much the Taliban in disguise.
    Not a Gov of our choosing and in no way similar to the Taliban.

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    The laws they have been introducing in regards to women etc.. are just disgraceful and make a mockery out of our troops who are fighting and dying under the illusion that they are helping these people. How many more service families are going to have to lose a son, a father or a mother, before the British public see through our Governments lies?
    That's all very well and good, but do you honestly think imposing a western style political or legal system would work? Its a slow process mate.


    (Original post by Aeolus)
    It takes just one glimpse into the history of Afghanistan, to realise that what we are trying to do right now is futile and has been attempted countless times in the past.
    Has it? I thought people had constantly tried to conquer Afghan where as we are simply aiding the domestic government with the overall aim of getting them to a state where they can defend their own country from the Taliban with minimal help from the West... I'm fairly sure that's never been tried.

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    When we do eventually pull out of Afghanistan, it wont be long before the country is split once again into tribal factions and alliances.
    A lot of countries in that region have tribal divisions yet enjoy a fairly stable central government.


    [/QUOTE]If we were going to catch Bin Laden it would have happened by now.[/QUOTE]
    Why? Do you have any idea how hard it is to find someone who doesn't want to be found?
    Tell you what, go find me Neville Cheeseman, from Glasgow, go on.
    Easy eh?

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    The best option would be to withdraw, to stop throwing money at a lost cause, and to bring our boys and girls home.
    Why is it a lost cause? As far as I can see we are constantly taking ground and causing massive casualties to the Taliban, hell if you look into it most of the Taliban we fight these days are not those wide eyed 12ft tall bearded bears you think they are, they are skinny little Chechen blokes because we have killed most of the original Taliban.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    They also were far better people than you can ever hope to be, yes, they knew the risk, but being prepared to take that risk alone deserves respect.

    Many of the freedoms you enjoy today are from the same sort of people, soldier's don't choose the wars they fight, the politicians do. They still risk their lives.

    Again, each and everyone one of them were better persons than you.
    Read my other posts or GTFO.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: July 16, 2009
The home of Results and Clearing

1,721

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.