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Are Irish universities exempt from UCAS? Watch

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    Or do they still make up one of your five choices?

    I'm thinking of applying to Trinity College, Dublin, but it's really unclear what they want. I'm from England, by the way. Does anybody know the entry requirements? The website is really confusing me.
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    "Exempt"? You make it sound like some sort of tax :p: UCAS only applies to UK universities, so you use it to apply to unis in Northern Ireland but not the Republic of Ireland. In Ireland you apply using CAO... this part of the TCD website has more info.
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    (Original post by nuodai)
    "Exempt"? You make it sound like some sort of tax :p: UCAS only applies to UK universities, so you use it to apply to unis in Northern Ireland but not the Republic of Ireland. In Ireland you apply using CAO... this part of the TCD website has more info.
    Thank you I've looked at that link but it's still incredibly confusing.

    So if I was applying for a university in the RoI I'd still have 5 places on UCAS plus applying to a university in the RoI?
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Thank you I've looked at that link but it's still incredibly confusing.

    So if I was applying for a university in the RoI I'd still have 5 places on UCAS plus applying to a university in the RoI?
    Yes; UCAS only limits the number of places in the UK that you can apply for. I'm not sure if CAO limits it in Ireland though, but if you're only wanting to apply to Trinity it shouldn't be an issue even if they do.
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    This is a really old thread, but I thought I might as well join in...

    You get NINE applications in Ireland through CAO as well as your five normal UCAS ones.
    You also don't have to write a personal statement for CAO, which is another bonus - you can apply for wildly different courses, if you feel like it.

    All this is great. The downside is that you pretty much have to do four A Levels - and do pretty well in them - if you want to apply to the ROI: this policy changes from university to university, I think, but I'm pretty sure Trinity and UCD would need four A Levels.

    According to my Irish cousins, the justification for this is that, and I quote, "our leaving certificate is way harder than your exams, so it's only fair".

    *eyeroll*


    Anyway, this is what I've been told by my careers tutor and a couple of other sources. I'm finding it really difficult to get any more information, though. Trinity's website seems to be fairly useless - it doesn't tell you what subjects you need to have studied or what grades you need for each course. It only gives the average number of points needed from the Irish Leaving Certificate, and I'm not sure how that translates into A levels.

    It's all quite confusing, but then.... nine extra applications....
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    Just so you know, the student loan company doesnt cover RoI
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    Hmmm 'exempt'. IT'S A DIFFERENT COUNTRY! One with only 7 universities, no need for a huge complicated system like UCAS. Anyway, the CAO system gives you a number and that's your number the whole way through- it's the middle man, the unis will not contact you until you accept a place (through CAO). It's a very fair system. You can have 10 choices in 10 different unis if you want, it works by preference, you have to put first what you actually want the most, not what you think you're capable of getting. cao.ie should have the handbook as a pdf. There's parts of the tcd website that tell you what subjects aren't accepted etc. The prospectus is available as a pdf and each course will say underneath the Leaving cert requirements what the a-level requirements are. qualifax.ie has points information.

    ComputerSaysNo- Sorry but research the Leaving Cert! There's no way of equalising both systems and 600 points with 3 A-Levels, it's unfair. The Leaving Cert IS way harder, fact! Look up how many people get the top grades as a proportion in each, I'm almost certain less than 2% actually get 600 points. We also all have to do English, Irish, Maths to matriculate at all for uni (as well as 3 other subjects, one to be a foreign language, though in some such as Trinity you don't need both Irish and French for example, just one).

    What course are you looking at in TCD? It's it's one with over 500 points you'd really need AAAA to be guaranteed a place.
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    Okay this is a super old thread but hopefully someone is still keeping an eye on it to help me?!?! Our school only lets us do 3 A Levels - I can't understand Trinity Colleges website so could you please tell me whether A*A*A* and A at AS would reach the minimum points of 535?

    Thanks xx
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    (Original post by emilyjcastles)
    Okay this is a super old thread but hopefully someone is still keeping an eye on it to help me?!?! Our school only lets us do 3 A Levels - I can't understand Trinity Colleges website so could you please tell me whether A*A*A* and A at AS would reach the minimum points of 535?

    Thanks xx
    This would seem to suggest you are fine to do it with 3 A2's and and AS, obviously it's still a seriously tough offer but no harm in trying as you don't waste a UCAS place. Though the bottom suggests it's not an offer but what was expected in previous years, as the Irish apply post results day and they just take the top ones applying for that course, so it could go up or down (not sure whether Ireland has grade inflation).

    http://www.tcd.ie/Admissions/undergr...culation/gcse/
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    (Original post by roh)
    This would seem to suggest you are fine to do it with 3 A2's and and AS, obviously it's still a seriously tough offer but no harm in trying as you don't waste a UCAS place. Though the bottom suggests it's not an offer but what was expected in previous years, as the Irish apply post results day and they just take the top ones applying for that course, so it could go up or down (not sure whether Ireland has grade inflation).

    http://www.tcd.ie/Admissions/undergr...culation/gcse/
    But I just worked it out and it said with 3 A* and 1 A AS that is only 515 points when I needs 535?
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    (Original post by emilyjcastles)
    But I just worked it out and it said with 3 A* and 1 A AS that is only 515 points when I needs 535?
    Oh you know what it doesnt even matter - it says you cant have english literature and english language - wth?!?! - arr well
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    (Original post by emilyjcastles)
    But I just worked it out and it said with 3 A* and 1 A AS that is only 515 points when I needs 535?
    Sorry I didn't do the maths.

    You can always apply and hope the standard of competition this year drops by 20 points, otherwise you'd have to do 4 A2 subjects. The standards are very tough (it's perfectly possible to get Oxbridge, ICL/UCL/LSE, Ivy League etc. places without meeting TCD's requirements) but it doesn't actually cost you a valuable UCAS spot so there's no harm in trying on the off chance grades fall for 2012/13.

    You've got to be in the lottery to win it after all!
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    Okay well thank you for your help anyway
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    (Original post by emilyjcastles)
    Oh you know what it doesnt even matter - it says you cant have english literature and english language - wth?!?! - arr well

    You can't do that because we can't do that. We just have English. It would be highly unfair if you could in a system like ours.

    I am sorry though that it's not working out for you, that sucks. 535 is extremely competitive, those points are not going to drop. Nothing over 500 moves very much, except upwards, especially in Trinity. You are correct in that your grades won't reach as the A at AS is worth a lot less. It's not the fault of the CAO or TCD or whichever uni it is, it is the fault of the huge difference between the two exam and grading systems.

    The Leaving Cert forces students to be great all-arounders, you cannot specialise and get brilliant grades. ALL students have to do Irish, English, Maths and a third language, these are compulsory. You have to do three other subjects as well and none of them are modern or 'soft' subjects, they are all traditional. So we do 7 subjects and 6 are counted for points- out of 600 points. You cannot equate 3 a-levels with 6 LC subjects, it doesn't work and it would be extremely biased towards UK students. You may think well it's extremely biased towards Irish students then. But it is extremely hard for students to be great at 6 subjects and get brilliant grades. Less than 1% get the perfect 600 points, I think it's 0.3% Our grades are more specific, they're broken down. There are many, many students with an aptitude for science, maths and practical subjects who fall down grades wise if they're poor at languages- 3 languages, 2 must count to make up the 6! The vast majority of students are weak at either Irish or Maths (other languages too but Irish is the chief culprit). This forces them to be brilliant at everything else because the weak subject won't be counted. This is shown in my own schools, out of 120 students in my year when doing the LC, only 6 took higher level Irish. This meant that for the rest if they were aiming for high points courses automatically they could not count Irish for points as similar to how AS scores differ to A2 for CAO conversion, lower-level (called ordinary or pass) grades are worth a lot less than higher level. Maths was slightly better, 15 took higher-level. You may be sure there was a huge amount, definitely at least 70 doing ordinary level in two subjects, the two mentioned above being the main culprits. This automatically means 600 is impossible as one must be counted.

    535 is unattainable for the vast vast majority of Irish students. I myself got a great LC- 500 points, A1,A2,B2,B2,B2,C1. (and a terrible D1 in lower-level maths which I couldn't count so had to rely on the C1 in biology). This is well above average (average is 360) and shows that I was a very good all arounder. HOWEVER it's well below 535! So you can see that it's very hard for all candidates to attain.

    Also, the system works in reverse. 4 A-levels equals 6 LC subjects. For students here applying to the UK, an LC subject is worth two-thirds of an A-level. There's no fairer way, for both systems.

    Anyway I just wanted to show you why the system is the way it is and that's it's extremely difficult for all candidates to attain scores like that.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    You can't do that because we can't do that. We just have English. It would be highly unfair if you could in a system like ours.

    I am sorry though that it's not working out for you, that sucks. 535 is extremely competitive, those points are not going to drop. Nothing over 500 moves very much, except upwards, especially in Trinity. You are correct in that your grades won't reach as the A at AS is worth a lot less. It's not the fault of the CAO or TCD or whichever uni it is, it is the fault of the huge difference between the two exam and grading systems.

    The Leaving Cert forces students to be great all-arounders, you cannot specialise and get brilliant grades. ALL students have to do Irish, English, Maths and a third language, these are compulsory. You have to do three other subjects as well and none of them are modern or 'soft' subjects, they are all traditional. So we do 7 subjects and 6 are counted for points- out of 600 points. You cannot equate 3 a-levels with 6 LC subjects, it doesn't work and it would be extremely biased towards UK students. You may think well it's extremely biased towards Irish students then. But it is extremely hard for students to be great at 6 subjects and get brilliant grades. Less than 1% get the perfect 600 points, I think it's 0.3% Our grades are more specific, they're broken down. There are many, many students with an aptitude for science, maths and practical subjects who fall down grades wise if they're poor at languages- 3 languages, 2 must count to make up the 6! The vast majority of students are weak at either Irish or Maths (other languages too but Irish is the chief culprit). This forces them to be brilliant at everything else because the weak subject won't be counted. This is shown in my own schools, out of 120 students in my year when doing the LC, only 6 took higher level Irish. This meant that for the rest if they were aiming for high points courses automatically they could not count Irish for points as similar to how AS scores differ to A2 for CAO conversion, lower-level (called ordinary or pass) grades are worth a lot less than higher level. Maths was slightly better, 15 took higher-level. You may be sure there was a huge amount, definitely at least 70 doing ordinary level in two subjects, the two mentioned above being the main culprits. This automatically means 600 is impossible as one must be counted.

    535 is unattainable for the vast vast majority of Irish students. I myself got a great LC- 500 points, A1,A2,B2,B2,B2,C1. (and a terrible D1 in lower-level maths which I couldn't count so had to rely on the C1 in biology). This is well above average (average is 360) and shows that I was a very good all arounder. HOWEVER it's well below 535! So you can see that it's very hard for all candidates to attain.

    Also, the system works in reverse. 4 A-levels equals 6 LC subjects. For students here applying to the UK, an LC subject is worth two-thirds of an A-level. There's no fairer way, for both systems.

    Anyway I just wanted to show you why the system is the way it is and that's it's extremely difficult for all candidates to attain scores like that.
    Thank you thats really helpful - I totally get that - just a shame!
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    You can't do that because we can't do that. We just have English. It would be highly unfair if you could in a system like ours.

    I am sorry though that it's not working out for you, that sucks. 535 is extremely competitive, those points are not going to drop. Nothing over 500 moves very much, except upwards, especially in Trinity. You are correct in that your grades won't reach as the A at AS is worth a lot less. It's not the fault of the CAO or TCD or whichever uni it is, it is the fault of the huge difference between the two exam and grading systems.

    The Leaving Cert forces students to be great all-arounders, you cannot specialise and get brilliant grades. ALL students have to do Irish, English, Maths and a third language, these are compulsory. You have to do three other subjects as well and none of them are modern or 'soft' subjects, they are all traditional. So we do 7 subjects and 6 are counted for points- out of 600 points. You cannot equate 3 a-levels with 6 LC subjects, it doesn't work and it would be extremely biased towards UK students. You may think well it's extremely biased towards Irish students then. But it is extremely hard for students to be great at 6 subjects and get brilliant grades. Less than 1% get the perfect 600 points, I think it's 0.3% Our grades are more specific, they're broken down. There are many, many students with an aptitude for science, maths and practical subjects who fall down grades wise if they're poor at languages- 3 languages, 2 must count to make up the 6! The vast majority of students are weak at either Irish or Maths (other languages too but Irish is the chief culprit). This forces them to be brilliant at everything else because the weak subject won't be counted. This is shown in my own schools, out of 120 students in my year when doing the LC, only 6 took higher level Irish. This meant that for the rest if they were aiming for high points courses automatically they could not count Irish for points as similar to how AS scores differ to A2 for CAO conversion, lower-level (called ordinary or pass) grades are worth a lot less than higher level. Maths was slightly better, 15 took higher-level. You may be sure there was a huge amount, definitely at least 70 doing ordinary level in two subjects, the two mentioned above being the main culprits. This automatically means 600 is impossible as one must be counted.

    535 is unattainable for the vast vast majority of Irish students. I myself got a great LC- 500 points, A1,A2,B2,B2,B2,C1. (and a terrible D1 in lower-level maths which I couldn't count so had to rely on the C1 in biology). This is well above average (average is 360) and shows that I was a very good all arounder. HOWEVER it's well below 535! So you can see that it's very hard for all candidates to attain.

    Also, the system works in reverse. 4 A-levels equals 6 LC subjects. For students here applying to the UK, an LC subject is worth two-thirds of an A-level. There's no fairer way, for both systems.

    Anyway I just wanted to show you why the system is the way it is and that's it's extremely difficult for all candidates to attain scores like that.
    Btw TCD said I would be the same as an Irish Student with 535 points if i got A*AAB at A level - I may just have to beg my teacher to let me carry on the 4th!
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    (Original post by emilyjcastles)
    Btw TCD said I would be the same as an Irish Student with 535 points if i got A*AAB at A level - I may just have to beg my teacher to let me carry on the 4th!
    Why wouldn't your teacher let you? They get more funding the more students do more A levels!

    Anyway TCD can be nice if you do think you can make those grades. I know my sister found it nice to have somewhere she could pretty much guarantee a place (810 from 5 A levels and an AS. Don't even ask, she's basically inhuman!) for PPES, whilst Oxford's PPE was more of a lottery with the PPET, interview etc. all being unknown quantities.

    On the flip side of this don't do 4 for TCD if the extra work will compromise your chances of getting the A*AA top English unis are now requesting for English.
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    Yes a*aab is 540 but you would be safer with more of a leeway. You still can't present both English subjects though.

    Whoever told your sister she can add up all of her subjects hadn't a clue. Maximum is 600 points, 4 a levels or 3 and an as versus 6 LC subjects. You can't stack advantage against everyone else like that.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Yes a*aab is 540 but you would be safer with more of a leeway. You still can't present both English subjects though.

    Whoever told your sister she can add up all of her subjects hadn't a clue. Maximum is 600 points, 4 a levels or 3 and an as versus 6 LC subjects. You can't stack advantage against everyone else like that.
    No, sorry I was giving the example as UCAS points to show the advantage it gives to students who are brilliant on paper but may slip up come interviews, HAT, ELAT, PPET, TSA etc. at Oxford (and equivalent at Cambridge).

    Guess TCD just took her 4 of her A*s to make 600, I'm not sure if they specified any particular 4 (maybe discounted further maths and just accounted for maths?) as she didn't go there in the end.
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    Ah makes way more sense so well cao would be the ones calculating points, would just take the first four to hand I think.
 
 
 
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