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    (Original post by RobertPires)
    Believing that something which isn't actually cognitive yet has rights or is a baby?
    Ram your car into the passenger side of another and you'll make it so someone else isn't cognitive either. Does that make them less human, and without rights?
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Ram your car into the passenger side of another and you'll make it so someone else isn't cognitive either. Does that make them less human, and without rights?
    Completely different scenario, I've ceased somebodies cognition, we are talking about something that wasn't cognitive to begin with.
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    (Original post by RobertPires)
    Completely different scenario, I've ceased somebodies cognition, we are talking about something that wasn't cognitive to begin with.
    But it will be. What's the difference? Why is something that will never be cognitive again more important than something that will become cognitive?
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    Pro choice
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    But it will be. What's the difference? Why is something that will never be cognitive again more important than something that will become cognitive?
    Because the person that is cognitive would rather not be killed while the non cognitive ball of cells has no desires whatsoever.
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    Pro-choice.
    I have safe sex, but if I got pregnant now against the odds, I would 100% have an abortion. However, I think abortions should be done as early as possible, and I want the limit to be reduced to 20 weeks.
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    (Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
    Because the person that is cognitive would rather not be killed while the non cognitive ball of cells has no desires whatsoever.
    We're comparing a fetus to someone who is braindead and no longer cognitive, not a fetus to a fully functioning human with wants.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    We're comparing a fetus to someone who is braindead and no longer cognitive, not a fetus to a fully functioning human with wants.
    Yes and the person starts as cognitive at the start of your hypothetical scenario. If they were brain dead at the start of whatever scenario it was it would be different.
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    (Original post by Brouhaha)
    Pro-choice.
    I have safe sex, but if I got pregnant now against the odds, I would 100% have an abortion. However, I think abortions should be done as early as possible, and I want the limit to be reduced to 20 weeks.
    Even though something like 90% of terminations in the 20-24 week period are by rape victims?
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    I'm not "pro-choice" per se, of course I'd never want to waste potential life, but in cases like rape(where the fundamental aspect of consent is taken away) then I'd completely advocate abortion as the right thing for not only the mother, but the child too.
    That's pathetic! Why is abortion wrong if the pregnancy is a result of consensual sexual relations but it's right if the pregnancy is a result of rape? The fetus either has a right to life that trumps the woman's right to choose or it does not possess such a right. Period.
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    (Original post by Brouhaha)
    Pro-choice...However, I think abortions should be done as early as possible, and I want the limit to be reduced to 20 weeks.
    Why do you think an abortion carried out week 19 is fine but an abortion carried out on week 21 is unacceptable?
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    (Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
    Yes and the person starts as cognitive at the start of your hypothetical scenario. If they were brain dead at the start of whatever scenario it was it would be different.
    Who cares if they used to be cognitive? They aren't now, and they never will be. The only potential they have left is to sit in a wheelchair and drool as they take in fluids through a feeding tube.

    The fetus on the other hand has real potential and is about to grow into a full human life, with complete cognition.
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    YAY! Because I like to have ownership over my own organs.
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    (Original post by JectioN)
    That's pathetic! Why is abortion wrong if the pregnancy is a result of consensual sexual relations but it's right if the pregnancy is a result of rape? The fetus either has a right to life that trumps the woman's right to choose or it does not possess such a right. Period.
    If it's the result of consensual sex, then the abortion is being done for convenience. If it's the result of rape, it's to protect the mother from serious psychological harm.
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    (Original post by JectioN)
    That's pathetic! Why is abortion wrong if the pregnancy is a result of consensual sexual relations but it's right if the pregnancy is a result of rape? The fetus either has a right to life that trumps the woman's right to choose or it does not possess such a right. Period.
    No, sorry, what's pathetic is your irrational argument that a woman who has been forced into sexual intercourse and penetrated against her will should keep the baby. I don't believe a feotus has a "right to life" but I do believe we have a duty to preserve potential life as much as possible; except in cases where danger is presented to the mother, or in cases of rape. The difference is quite clear: in consensual sex a mother knows full well the consequences that said situation may lead to, and thus accepts the consequences on rational terms. Whereas, in rape, the mother does not consent and thus does not accept that she may or may not get pregnant. What's so hard about that?

    I can't be forced to keep the baby if the circumstances in which (s)he were conceived were those of which I didn't consent to.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Who cares if they used to be cognitive? They aren't now, and they never will be. The only potential they have left is to sit in a wheelchair and drool as they take in fluids through a feeding tube.

    The fetus on the other hand is about to grow into a full human life, with full cognition.
    Looking back at the original point so I can actually see what's being argued, once the person is brain dead and non-cognitive I guess they aren't as morally significant as a non-cognitive foetus.

    Blah, wait for the guy who actually reads properly to come back and argue with you, I'm going to go out :P
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    (Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
    Looking back at the original point so I can actually see what's being argued, once the person is brain dead and non-cognitive I guess they aren't as morally significant as a non-cognitive foetus.

    Blah, wait for the guy who actually reads properly to come back and argue with you, I'm going to go out :P
    Hahaha, have fun! :p:
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    If it's the result of consensual sex, then the abortion is being done for convenience. If it's the result of rape, it's to protect the mother from serious psychological harm.
    There's no reason to assume that a woman who has been raped will certainly face serious psychological harm if the fetus is not aborted and, similarly, there's no reason to assume that a pregnancy that has come about from consensual sex will not cause serious psychological harm to the woman. For example, what if the pregnant woman is a teenager from a strictly conservative family? What about the serious psychological harm that might be caused to such a person if she does not have the option to abort the pregnancy?

    Also, what about antenatal and prenatal mental health problems? Whether the pregnancy is a product of consensual or non-consensual sexual relations, some women experience significant psychological harm during pregnancy and after giving birth.
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    (Original post by JectioN)
    There's no reason to assume that a woman who has been raped will certainly face serious psychological harm if the fetus is not aborted and, similarly, there's no reason to assume that a pregnancy that has come about from consensual sex will not cause serious psychological harm to the woman. For example, what if the pregnant woman is a teenager from a strictly conservative family? What about the serious psychological harm that might be caused to such a person if she does not have the option to abort the pregnancy?

    Also, what about antenatal and prenatal mental health problems? Whether the pregnancy is a product of consensual or non-consensual sexual relations, some women experience significant psychological harm during pregnancy and after giving birth.
    I'm not a "black and white" pro-lifer, so I have no real opinion on what to do with a teen who has abusive parents. I'm referring to the general idea of a woman having consensual sex and then having an abortion because she just doesn't want a baby. In a pure situation, there are no psychological effects.

    As for the rape victim, no there may not be problems, but that doesn't mean all the rape victims who do suffer psychological problems should have to suffer.
 
 
 
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