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    (Original post by JectioN)
    So what? If, as you claim, abortion is 'never right', why does it suddenly become permissible to kill a baby because of the unfortunate circumstances surrounding his or her conception?
    I said it was never right, not that it was never permissible. I'm actually closer to the pro-choice lobby rather than pro-life. And I've answered this question, which you seem adamant to repeat over and over again: LACK OF CONSENT. A woman shouldn't be punished for something she didn't enter into willingly.
    Why is it the most 'fitting or appropriate action to take'? Instead of permitting abortions, why not earmark taxpayers money to offer world-class counselling and psychological help (as well as the option of adoption) to women who are pregnant as a result of rape? Surely this makes far more sense if, as you claim, abortion is 'never right'?
    Whatever, we're taxed enough already without paying for the crimes of rapists.
    P.S. You haven't answered my other questions. Why is life precious?
    It's pretty obvious. If it wasn't we could just murder everybody we see fit.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Why isn't the life of a fetus worth the same as a full grown human?
    Because it's not human. Well, I lie, at some stages it might turn into one. That's why we currently have a limit at what time an abortion can be taken. A human is a thing that develops in the womb. I wouldn't say a zygote was a human nor would I say a foetus at 30 weeks was simply a collection of cells.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    LACK OF CONSENT. A woman shouldn't be punished for something she didn't enter into willingly.
    Why should the fetus be punished and what about his or her lack of consent?

    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Whatever, we're taxed enough already without paying for the crimes of rapists.
    Surely we can earmark some money to uphold our 'duty to preserve life' (or so you say)?

    (Original post by 35mm_)
    It's pretty obvious.
    No, not really. Please explain.

    (Original post by 35mm_)
    If it wasn't we could just murder everybody we see fit.
    Not necessarily. We clearly do not have an absolutist position on the value of life (or even human life) as a society, otherwise we would collectively oppose the death penalty; we would all be pacifists when it comes to war and so on; we would oppose the use of condoms and masturbation; etc.
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    (Original post by Georgecopter)
    Because it's not human. Well, I lie, at some stages it might turn into one. That's why we currently have a limit at what time an abortion can be taken. A human is a thing that develops in the womb. I wouldn't say a zygote was a human nor would I say a foetus at 30 weeks was simply a collection of cells.
    This.
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    (Original post by Rainfaery)
    What about if a woman did take all precautions against getting pregnant, but her birth control failed, or the condom split, or something? And she just isn't ready? I can't say that I advocate abortion, just to get rid of a problem. But sometimes, I think it really can be the best option.
    Adoption would be the best option in my opinion, no one has to die. Fair enough you maybe get pregnant out of bad luck or carelessness but I don't think that warrants killing the baby.

    And why should the right to life supersede the rights of someone who is already alive? I am really not trying to attack you, I am very curious. If someone is already live, and will be adversely affected by having a baby, why are the rights of some cells more important than her well-being?
    I suppose, because I view an unborn baby as a living human being - not a 'bunch of cells' therefore it has the same rights as any other human being, including the right to life.

    Plus do you not think it seems rather hypocritical not to be able to put to death our worst criminals, who pry of perfectly innocent victims, yet we are allowed to abort tens of thousands of unborn babies in the UK each year?
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    (Original post by Square)
    Adoption would be the best option in my opinion, no one has to die. Fair enough you maybe get pregnant out of bad luck or carelessness but I don't think that warrants killing the baby.
    I think adoption is a very reasonable option, in some cases. However, it isn't for everyone, and the 9 months of pregnancy can still be extremely traumatic for a woman.

    I suppose, because I view an unborn baby as a living human being - not a 'bunch of cells' therefore it has the same rights as any other human being, including the right to life.

    Plus do you not think it seems rather hypocritical not to be able to put to death our worst criminals, who pry of perfectly innocent victims, yet we are allowed to abort tens of thousands of unborn babies in the UK each year?
    I guess that is where we differ. I don't think it is hypocritical, because I do not belief that a zygote or foetus is really a human being, up until about the 24 week mark. It cannot survive outside the womb on its own; it is utterly dependent on its mother. We don't kill criminals because they are living, breathing human beings. Thus, I don't see the hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by JectioN)
    Why should the fetus be punished and what about his or her lack of consent?
    Because it doesn't have rights yet. It can't knowingly consent or not consent, it can't, in fact, do anything outside of the mother's womb thus effectively rendering a feotus a parasite. It's not being "punished" for it has no knowledge.
    Surely we can earmark some money to uphold our 'duty to preserve life' (or so you say)?
    It was quite a facetious reply to your pretty pointless post.
    No, not really. Please explain.
    See above.
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    I'm for it.

    It'd stop teenage chav girls getting money and houses off the state.

    I know a woman who has a large, 4 bedroomed house with 3 floors, a large garden and a garage because she kept getting knocked up. It just seems wrong.
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    Pro choice, other people should have no right to tell a women what she can and cannot do to her own body.
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    Against abortion
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    I am pro choice - I don't think it is fair to force a woman to bring up a child she doesn't want, and I don't think it is fair for a child to be brought up in an environment where it isn't wanted.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    That's ridiculous! Surely as a mother you understand that your child is the mots beloved thingin your life. You should be able to choose whether to have a child anyway, especially in terms of rape. Why would you want the product of something so abhorrent to be staring you in the face everyday? Everytime you look at your child, a product of the rape you suffered is right there. What a sick sick way to look at life. Disgusting.

    You'd think as a woman, you'd have more understanding and respect for your fellow ladies. Obviously not.
    A baby who was conceived by rape is still an innocent baby. It's not just "the product of something so abhorrent" - it's a baby. Rape is awful, but it's not the baby's fault.

    You think I'm sick because I don't like the thought of an innocent life being aborted? Okay....well in that case I must be sick :rolleyes:
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    When you create a life-form, you no longer are the decision maker - the welfare of the child dictates all matters! THE CHILD ALWAYS COME FIRST!! He/She, the baby, didn't decide to be here!!
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    I think it should be compulsory for under 16s to get an abortion. Young mothers are a unworthy burden on our society.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    But it will be. What's the difference? Why is something that will never be cognitive again more important than something that will become cognitive?
    The difference is that one is wholly dependant on somebody else for life, whereas the other can, I won't say live, but exist independent of others.
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    (Original post by pocketfulofposy)
    As a final point, I don't understand how anyone could be against abortion in cases of rape, or where the mother's life is at risk if she continued with the pregnancy. My cousin had to have an abortion after being diagnosed with cancer four months into her pregnancy, and was told if she continued with the pregnancy and waited to have treatment afterwards, she wouldn't survive. It was agonising for her, because it was a much wanted child, but she had to put her life first. If she hadn't, she would have brought a child into the world, but the child would have been motherless not long afterwards. Yet there are pro-lifers who would happily deny people like my cousin the right to have an abortion, even if it had cost her her life, and I just can't understand that.
    Only people who are basically extremists would be against that. Even the Catholic Church, some of the most hardline anti-abortionsists, permit it in cases where it is an inevitable choice between the life of the mother and that of her unborn child.

    ---

    I'm pro-choice. I think there is nothing worse than bringing an unwanted life into an already overpopulated world. I also think that the current system of benefits encourages young women with few qualifications and prospects to have children - I know people who have done it and now they have a house and money they couldn't have otherwise dreamt of getting legally. And it is not right that schools don't have to teach sex ed properly, in fact since I went to a private school they got away with not teaching us anything at all, totally ridiculous considering the net result was the first girl in my class to get pregnant was 13 at the time.
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    (Original post by ADREAM)
    What's your stand on it guys/gals?

    Are you totally against it? Totally for it? Caught somewhere in the middle?

    I feel ashamed to admit that I know a few idiots who feel abortion is some sort of contraception. :rolleyes:

    Okay, before everyone screams 'pro-choice' with a funky smilie, perhaps explain a little of your reasoning?
    It depends on the situation. Personally I think that most of the time it's unacceptable e.g. if a teen gets pregnant and wants to get rid because they are too young/ embarrassed or whatever because they should have thought about that before they had sex. If you are mature enough to take the risk then you should be mature enough to take the responsibility. Although in some cases e.g. if the baby would be severely disabled or would never be able to lead a 'normal' life and the parents can't cope with this then it may be argued that abortion is the kindest thing.
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    I think it's highly subjective so I am not strongly one way or the other...

    I agree, if people don't use contraception and just have abortions, that's probably not a good thing... but I do feel people have to have the choice. It's a woman's body that is going to be carrying the baby and she should be able to have that choice as to whether she wants it or not. I would be very upset if I always took precautions and used contraception and then got pregnant even though I'd done everything right to prevent it... and in that case, I would consider it certainly.
    Also, if someone is raped, obviously they would probably not want that reminder if they were to be pregnant from it.

    Some people probably could argue that the baby doesn't get a choice etc... however it would not be good for a future child either if the parent did not have the means to provide it with a life worth living or if they couldn't afford it, in some cases I think this is crueler!

    Also, men who have said they are pro-life... would you really feel the same way if it was YOUR body that would be expanded and pregnated & if it was YOU who had to carry the baby and actually go through GIVING BIRTH?

    Just an interesting question I think.
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    (Original post by JectioN)
    Why do you think an abortion carried out week 19 is fine but an abortion carried out on week 21 is unacceptable?
    Mostly because it's been proved babies can survive post-20 weeks and that they can feel pain more. I just think it's a more appropriate threshold.
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    Yay!
    Think they should increase the limit too.
 
 
 
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