Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sarafina)
    Don't know if it's been said, but this reminds me of how Hitler downplayed anti-Semitism in order to promote other policies and get as many votes as possible in the final elections... History repeats?
    :rolleyes:. Or maybe the party just reformed some time ago,and expelled any extremist elements?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    You consistently support the BNP here, a party created in the image of Nazism by neo-Nazi John Tyndall in the 1980s with the aim of creating an 'ethnically pure' nation, an aim the BNP still hold as central. Blaming Marx and Marxism for a string of regimes which came about long after his death and which didn't in any sense fit with the very little he said about Communism anyway, is absurd. Hitler was responsible for Nazism because it was his creation, likewise Mussolini and Fascism. Marx can no more be blamed for Stalin's actions than Jesus can be blamed for the KKK (yes, they believe themselves to be a Christian movement).
    His criticism is primarily of state capitalism if he criticises those regimes. Which is rather ironic.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Er, everything. He just doesn't come straight out and say "I support the BNP", which co-incidently I'd respect him a lot more if he did.
    What because he is anti-immigration? That doesn't equate to a BNP voter.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Sarafina)
    Don't know if it's been said, but this reminds me of how Hitler downplayed anti-Semitism in order to promote other policies and get as many votes as possible in the final elections... History repeats?
    This is actually a very good point. Hitler waited until he was in power before unleashing his greatest venom for Jews, Gypsies, Socialists and other groups he hated. The fact that Hitler's Mein Kampf was a book Griffin poured through obsessively as a teenager shouldn't go unnoticed by us - Griffin has even commented on how the chapter concerning propaganda was the one of most use to him. We should not only be concerned about what the BNP say but what they might not be saying yet would like to (and, indeed, used to). Everything about the BNP's history, policies, rhetoric and leaders is part of the mix and the impression is definately a very sinister one.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sarafina)
    Don't know if it's been said, but this reminds me of how Hitler downplayed anti-Semitism in order to promote other policies and get as many votes as possible in the final elections... History repeats?
    Stop comparing the BNP and the Nazi party...it is utterly tedious.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    What because he is anti-immigration? That doesn't equate to a BNP voter.
    He's not merely anti-immigration, he would support, and indeed desires, the reparation of immigrants, solely because they don't match up to his notion of quintessential "Britishness".

    Co-incidently, the BNP also believe in this.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Stop comparing the BNP and the Nazi party...it is utterly tedious.
    It's a very worthy comparison, actually.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    You consistently support the BNP here, a party created in the image of Nazism by neo-Nazi John Tyndall in the 1980s with the aim of creating an 'ethnically pure' nation, an aim the BNP still hold as central. Blaming Marx and Marxism for a string of regimes which came about long after his death and which didn't in any sense fit with the very little he said about Communism anyway, is absurd. Hitler was responsible for Nazism because it was his creation, likewise Mussolini and Fascism. Marx can no more be blamed for Stalin's actions than Jesus can be blamed for the KKK (yes, they believe themselves to be a Christian movement).
    You don't need to keep repeating the 'neo-Nazi' drone, I think I get the message (even though I've refuted it about fifty times, but oh well). I don't support the party anyway; I sympathise with some of their ideals and apply common sense by addressing all political organisations with an holistic perspective, rather than following the "OMGZZZZZZZZZ naZIZ" prescription based on isolated, out-of-date incidents.

    On communism, my views on the fundamental violence of it are quite strong. I don't believe a pure Marxism could ever be sustained in spite of violence (or brainwashing) due to natural individual expediency and selfishness. This works in two ways really. It can never be implemented because any communist group, guided by an individual, will be corrupted in the face of political power. After something like a Marxist state would be established, if we don't have a form of systematic brainwashing (which would make such a society undesirable anyway), the natural inclination to human betterment would break egalitarian constraints regardless; this would eventually result in violence in order to sustain such an order. Human nature makes pure Marxism nothing but an impossibility. I guess, ultimately, it depends really on whether you define communism by means of the final goal or the route by which we get there. Considering the latter is all we have, I think it's justified to define it by that - and, as far as I can see, it's been nothing more than chaotic because of the individual's strife for betterment. I don't think Marxism's even desirable anyway; in my opinion hierarchy and oligarchy are necessary for society to efficiently function.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    The fact that Hitler's Mein Kampf was a book Griffin poured through obsessively as a teenager shouldn't go unnoticed by us - Griffin has even commented on how the chapter concerning propaganda was the one of most use to him.
    Again,nothing other than pure lies. He read through it once(not poured through obsessively) and found the propaganda chapter of interest- all political parties use propaganda material to reflect their aims and objectives. Indeed, I wouldn't be suprised if UAF and HNH haven't take a casual glance through Mein Kampf in the past to find the best ways of interfering with the democratic process and distributing lies about the BNP.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    You don't need to keep repeating the 'neo-Nazi' drone...
    The ideological links betwen the BNP and the Nazis are actually pretty strong. The BNP was created by a neo-Nazi for one thing, a guy who liked dressing up as a storm-trooper. But taking the racist dimension alone shows a good parallel between the BNP and the Nazis. Just as the Nazis sought to create an 'aryan nation' the BNP wish to create an 'ethno-British nation' (they use different terms depending on their mood it seems but this is the same kind of thing). The BNP, like the Nazis before them believe in some kind of mystical 'ethnic brotherhood' which 'needs' to be preserved and believe that there's some kind of sacred cultural life which everyone should maintain. Like the Nazis the BNP have a history of attacking Jews though more recently they've switched the attack to Muslims, though I don't think the anti-Semitism has gone away, it's undoubtedly just 'on hold'.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gr8)
    Then why do you create many threads to do with the BNP and you have been on this thread for hours, this isn't the first time I've seen you on these sort of threads. I have also heard you are anti-labour and supported aspects of BNP ideology.
    I think it's impossible to not have any support for some aspects of BNP ideology. I think anyone could find at least one thing in their manifesto they agree with (whether it be the environment, transport etc.). Just because I hold similar views over the EU, capital punishment and immigration it doesn't necessitate a support for them. I'd probably support them if they hit the heights of the Front National in France, but not yet. People have the strange conception that all Tories adhere to the Cameron-esque, New Labour II model, which simply isn't the case. Many of my views are traditionally Tory; John Bercow shared many of my views when he was my age (and was a member of the Conservative Party).
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    Again,nothing other than pure lies. He read through it once(not poured through obsessively) and found the propaganda chapter of interest- all political parties use propaganda material to reflect their aims and objectives. Indeed, I wouldn't be suprised if UAF and HNH haven't take a casual glance through Mein Kampf in the past to find the best ways of interfering with the democratic process and distributing lies about the BNP.
    lol.

    So it's just coincidence that a man who is the current leader of a party founded by a neo-Nazi happens to have been reading Hitler's Mein Kampf and publicly stated that the chapter on propaganda was useful to him? You're a joke.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    I think it's impossible to not have any support for some aspects of BNP ideology. I think anyone could find at least one thing in their manifesto they agree with (whether it be the environment, transport etc.). Just because I hold similar views over the EU, capital punishment and immigration it doesn't necessitate a support for them. I'd probably support them if they hit the heights of the Front National in France, but not yet. People have the strange conception that all Tories adhere to the Cameron-esque, New Labour II model, which simply isn't the case. Many of my views are traditionally Tory; John Bercow shared many of my views when he was my age (and was a member of the Conservative Party).
    Are you a Tory then?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    The ideological links betwen the BNP and the Nazis are actually pretty strong. The BNP was created by a neo-Nazi for one thing, a guy who liked dressing up as a storm-trooper. But taking the racist dimension alone shows a good parallel between the BNP and the Nazis. Just as the Nazis sought to create an 'aryan nation' the BNP wish to create an 'ethno-British nation' (they use different terms depending on their mood it seems but this is the same kind of thing). The BNP, like the Nazis before them believe in some kind of mystical 'ethnic brotherhood' which 'needs' to be preserved and believe that there's some kind of sacred cultural life which everyone should maintain. Like the Nazis the BNP have a history of attacking Jews though more recently they've switched the attack to Muslims, though I don't think the anti-Semitism has gone away, it's undoubtedly just 'on hold'.
    Yes. I said you didn't need to repeat it. :rolleyes:

    I'd be interested to see your responses to the view that a strife for human betterment makes Marxism unachievable in spite of violence (which conflicts the whole of ideal of an egalitarian society anyway). It would be genuinely interesting to hear a Marxist's response to how he believes it can be achieved in the present day (brainwashing isn't an option :rolleyes:).
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    You don't need to keep repeating the 'neo-Nazi' drone, I think I get the message (even though I've refuted it about fifty times, but oh well). I don't support the party anyway; I sympathise with some of their ideals and apply common sense by addressing all political organisations with an holistic perspective, rather than following the "OMGZZZZZZZZZ naZIZ" prescription based on isolated, out-of-date incidents.

    On communism, my views on the fundamental violence of it are quite strong. I don't believe a pure Marxism could ever be sustained in spite of violence (or brainwashing) due to natural individual expediency and selfishness. This works in two ways really. It can never be implemented because any communist group, guided by an individual, will be corrupted in the face of political power. After something like a Marxist state would be established, if we don't have a form of systematic brainwashing (which would make such a society undesirable anyway), the natural inclination to human betterment would break egalitarian constraints regardless; this would eventually result in violence in order to sustain such an order. Human nature makes pure Marxism nothing but an impossibility. I guess, ultimately, it depends really on whether you define communism by means of the final goal or the route by which we get there. Considering the latter is all we have, I think it's justified to define it by that - and, as far as I can see, it's been nothing more than chaotic because of the individual's strife for betterment. I don't think Marxism's even desirable anyway; in my opinion hierarchy and oligarchy are necessary for society to efficiently function.
    Wait, wait, wait, you oppose communism but yet you sympathise and "agree with aspects :rolleyes: " of BNP policies? Hypocrite.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gr8)
    Are you a Tory then?
    For now, yes. But I'm probably the furthest you could get from Cameron.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Wait, wait, wait, you oppose communism but yet you sympathise and "agree with aspects :rolleyes: " of BNP policies? Hypocrite.
    Erm, no. Communism necessitates violence (and is a stupid ideal anyway). Nationalism doesn't.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    Presumably the BNP would also, as well as kicking out (sorry, asking for the departure of) non-white people, be placing bans on any culture that didn't fit their fantasy of morris-dancing and folk-music. Out with the curries, out with the jazz and the hip-hop, out with anything that isn't flag-waving, fish and chips and just plain old 'being white in the company of white people' lol
    Remember that 'fish and chips' was a Roma invention that was brought to England.

    Looks like they'll be losing that too in this 'newly enlightened' Britain.

    squish.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Oswy)
    lol.

    So it's just coincidence that a man who is the current leader of a party founded by a neo-Nazi happens to have been reading Hitler's Mein Kampf and publicly stated that the chapter on propaganda was useful to him? You're a joke.
    That the party was founded by a neo-nazi makes little difference after a period of political reform. As I've said, the chapter on propaganda probably would be useful, as it would be for any political party ( or interfering fascist organisation like the UAF ), indeed you would have more of a legitimate point if he had said he found interesting ideas in the section on the aryan race.

    The fact that Griffin,even at an early age, was more interested in the propaganda section than all of the nazi idealogy you seem to think he holds proves he was never really fully behind any kind of nazi idea- he was more likely than not dragged along in the foolishness of his youth.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Erm, no. Communism necessitates violence (and is a stupid ideal anyway). Nationalism doesn't.
    Are the BNP's Socialist economical leanings stopping you from pledging support? If they were right-wing in terms of the economy (like the Tories) would you commit support for them? You seem to be in favour of the BNP's social policies.

    Am I right?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: July 15, 2009
Poll
Who is most responsible for your success at university
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.