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    (Original post by akhuma)
    HAAHAH Can i just ask. Has the thread starter come a conclusion from all this?
    HELL NO!
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    I'm just saying that it is possible that Islam is not peaceful due to the fact that it was created by the Devil.
    Well it could be. But then the Qur'an also says things like:

    No evil ones have brought down this (Revelation): It would neither suit them nor would they be able (to produce it). Indeed they have been removed far from even (a chance of) hearing it. So call not on any other god with Allah, or thou wilt be among those under the Penalty. 26:210-213

    When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah's protection from Satan the rejected one. 16:98

    Doesn't really sound like the kind of thing the Devil would say. "When you read my book, ask God to save you from me".

    If the Devil intends to steer us away from good deeds, then the Qur'an looks like a very pitiful attempt to do so. In fact it seems to be doing the opposite
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The first and foremost commandment to follow is to love your neighbor as yourself. That means that trumps all other commandments. That means it is the most important to preserve over all other laws.

    I have decided that view, it is my interpretation. It is for interpretation, and is certainly not set. If God was so anti-gay sex then there would be more about it in the New Testament.
    It might trump them but it doesn't null and void the others. Do you agree?

    Its important to preserve the other as well. It might even be more important since everyone is already aware of that commandment and more effort should be put into reminding us of other things.

    Romans 1:26-27
    For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
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    Go to the mosque and find out your answers yout ****....
    These "terrorists" people refer to are in no way MUSLIM nor do they have the right to do so.
    A lot of this islam is an evil religion bs comes from the media. Remember Islam is a way of life and EVERY religion teaches peace.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I don't have the bible memorised, could you let me know where this is taken from please?
    Matthew 5, about halfway through. Verse 19 onwards, or something like that.

    To me, those verses look as though Jesus is telling people to keep OT laws. But even if you disagree with that, I think roots has already shown you some NT verses which also prohibit homosexual relations.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Well I don't doubt there is a very tiny minority of people who do this. Why don't you open your eyes? Go into your city centre and see who's feeding the homeless. It certainly isn't Muslims or Atheists in the majority of cases. A small percentage of every group are nut cases, atheism certainly has it's fair share, but Muslims seem to have a far larger percentage than all other groups.
    You do know that the Catholic church openly supported Nazism? You are aware of the horrific pederasty covered up by the Catholic church? Etc, etc.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/islam...e-history.html
    That site is immensely useful IMO, if obviously "biased".

    "...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. " (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)

    "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

    "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

    "Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)

    "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

    "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

    "If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

    "To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)

    "If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)

    "Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

    "Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)

    "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

    "Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)

    "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

    "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

    "The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)

    "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

    "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

    "If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)

    "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

    "It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

    "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

    "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

    "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

    "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

    "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

    "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

    "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

    "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

    "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

    "You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-)

    "As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)

    "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

    "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)


    http://www.islamispeace.org.uk/itm.php?id_top=25

    This is in response to Iqbal C (an Indian Muslim living in USA for the last 35 years). My opinion is that Quran promotes peace, not violence. These are the readers of Quran who cannot understand the real spirit of the Quran. First thing is that Quran should be read in context with ground realities at the time when an Ayat was revealed. The people who read Quran out of context normally get misguided and go astray. The prophet of Islam (PBUH) dis-allow to interpret Quran according to ones own will. The interpretation should be strictly according to the famous taffasir (books of interpretation) of Quran.

    So the wrong is with the deviated muslims who interpret the Quran according to their own will. These people want some political/financial benefits by acting on the wrong interpretation of Quran.

    It is required that we should make clear to non-Muslims that a true Muslim is always a peaceful and loving person who loves human beings as they are also the creation of the God. At the end I will advise brother Iqbal C to re-examine his opinion after studying the Quran in the light of some famous tafsir (interpretation) as done by early Muslims.

    ...from http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/13991

    BTW HOW ARE THE LAST STATEMENTS NEGATIVE?
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    (Original post by roots)
    Jesus did not come with a new religion. He was a Jew himself and he followed the Law.

    Does one Prophet condemn another?

    Matthew 10: 34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    Luke 19: 27
    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be a king over them— bring them here and kill them in front of me.'
    That Luke verse is taken entirely out of context. I believe it is a story, rather than any kind of commandment. And, as for the Matthew verse, many believe this to be a metaphor, and if it isn't we have the first commandment to go by: Love thy neighbor. As well as this it is backed up by Jesus:

    Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
    29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Hah, who better to ask about their religion than someone who will only benefit from giving a confused youth a moderate message in an attempt to keep them in the fold? A pretty huge conflict of interest there: asking a religious person about flaws in their religion!
    There are no flaws in islam.

    Conflict of interest? Isnt the OP a "muslim" aswell. There should be no conflicting of interest.
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    (Original post by taigan)
    OK. I definitely understand where you are coming from. Islam never says that he has to sleep with the opposite sex (if he can't, he just can't) but it says that he cannot act upon his feelings and have relations with the same sex. It's just the way it is. But these are the troubles of life. That is why it is a test, and unfortunately, it can be extremely difficult at times.
    It just does not add up. God makes people who have no attraction to the opposite sex and then becomes INCREDIBLY FURIOUS with them when they commit fornication. Why would they be especially ill treated in Hell when God made them in the way they are. Why can't they be classified as normal sinners, or actually, to be very fair, classify the whole act as a very small sin.

    Surely, if somebody was created to have sexual attraction to the same sex, they should be punished less for fornicating than, say, a murderer who commits murder out of cold blood.
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    (Original post by skippy786)
    There are no flaws in islam.

    Conflict of interest? Isnt the OP a "muslim" aswell. There should be no conflicting of interest.
    Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

    That made my day.

    I have no respect for you. Infact, i openly disrespect you.
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    (Original post by Tzar_Chasm)
    You do know that the Catholic church openly supported Nazism? You are aware of the horrific pederasty covered up by the Catholic church? Etc, etc.
    I am not a fan of the Catholic church in any way. They have, and still are, held back Christianity for many centuries to try and benefit and enrich themselves. I just cannot see how anyone can forfeight their right to interpret the bible to someone who professes to be God's messenger on earth. If that was God's will there would be extremely explicity explanation of this in the bible.
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    I'm gonna leave this thread now... its tiring
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    (Original post by geminibubblegum)
    no, and neither is any other religion completely peaceful
    get over it already
    Actually, I'm sure the most peaceful religion of them all is Jainism. Its more peaceful than any other religion, and is completely peaceful (or the closest you can get to it)
    Even the Central Priciple of Jainism is Ahimsa (Non - Violence), and the motto is "Live and Let Live".
    Jains are strict vegetarians (Buddhists are not, although most are), and the strictest monks even sweep the floor ahead of them on which they are about to walk, to try and avoid crushing small creatures. I mean, how more peaceful can you get??

    Back to the topic at hand, have any Jewish people blown themselves in Churches? Do you see Christians going into buses and setting off a bomb to kill innocents and Inoculate pure terror and fear?

    There is no question, Islam is not a peaceful religion. Some people say that its how you interpret the Qu'arn. But if it even allows any interpretation of violence (that is with lots of people, not just the odd nut or two) then surely it fails as a peaceful religion?
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Well, because Islam basically teaches you to butcher jews and non muslims (or convert them), at the whim of Muhammad. And to a muslim, his "race" is equivalent to his religion. Thus in their own view of race, they are racists (or atleast that's what their religion teaches them). You ask a muslim what his nationality he is and he'll reply with "Muslim". Atleast that's how it is in Britain. They see themselves as Muslims first and Britishers/Americans/Russians etc second. What you feel towards the idea of Britain, whatever nationalist beliefs you might posess (not suggesting you do, just an example), a Muslim person feels towards Islam.
    I didn't know Islam teaches its followers to butcher Jews, oh dear. I did know that it suggests non-muslims should be converted, but I don't really see how that's different to Jehovah's witnesses at my door or the crazy men who preach in town centres telling us we're all going to hell if we don't believe in God and that teenagers are spawns of the devil...oh yeah... and whilst I do relent that it's not as though Christianity is telling us to convert non-believers, it still happens.

    See, I'm quite the patriot in some respects, and I do think that Muslims in our country who denounce the queen/gov't whatever and hold on to their Muslim beliefs relentlessly and suggest that British people should become Muslim are wrong and shouldn't be here if they don't like it, really. But my argument didn't go as far as British Muslims (although it should, really) I was considering the ones in Muslim countries rather than the ones that live here.

    Where I don't think it's right to judge followers of Islam in Islamic countries, you're right in saying that they shouldn't try to enforce their beliefs onto a Christian Country. Sorry, how dim of me not to take our own country into consideration >_< Ah well. I'll know for next time.
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    (Original post by taigan)
    I'm gonna leave this thread now... its tiring
    you did not answer my question
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    Islam is only peaceful when it's followers ignore the outdated bigoted clauses that exist within it.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    HELL NO!

    AHHAHAHAH This is hilarious. One user asks a simple question. Yet after 8 pages of replies the user doesnt have an answer PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yall are great help.


    I personally would say. Check out how muslims SHOULD treat prisoners. not how they are treated. how they should be treated. Obviosly i could tell you but i think it would be best for you to do some research. Hopefully this will answer your question. Please do.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Biased evidence? It was a survey of 32,000 people across every strata of American society. Please show me the bias? By bias do you mean it doesn't agree with your biased view and is therefore wrong?

    I can see evidence that violence stays consistent regardless of religious affilation, but charity suffers. Even in my day to day life I know tons of Christians who give 10% of everything they earn to charity, but very few atheists who go further than throwing a few coins in a charity pot. I don't doubt many atheists give to a decent wedge to charity, i'm just saying many many more Christians give, and many many Christians give more than their atheist counterparts.
    Ah, well I'm sorry. I thought it was written by a Christian man to support your Christian claims, which I think from reading it does sound awfully pro-Chrstian >_<

    Where you know tonnes of Christians who give to charity, I know tonnes of Athiests who do. Maybe not 10%, I mean personally I don't but I don't earn other than my student loan, but I do give chunks of that to various charities which support illnesses my family have died for (as well as a doggy charity because my died), I do it for personal and emotional reasons rather than because my church tells me I should in order to be considered a true Christian though...

    Your evidence still only states that its Americans who do thought, which is fair enough if you're from America, but if you're English it doesn't really relate to you or me, does it?
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    (Original post by roots)
    It might trump them but it doesn't null and void the others. Do you agree?

    Its important to preserve the other as well. It might even be more important since everyone is already aware of that commandment and more effort should be put into reminding us of other things.

    Romans 1:26-27
    For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
    I agree that it doesn't void all the others. My point is that it is not my place to judge homosexuals, or whether it is neccessarily right or wrong, that is up to homosexuals. Indeed straight after the Roman's passage you quoted there is a warning not to judge people engaging in this behaviour as it will result in you getting a similar fate.


    Here is my rationale behind Pauls verses:

    Some question whether the word "perversion" in Verse 27, and "such things" in Verse 30 are related to only certain types of gay and lesbian behavior. e.g.:
    Homosexual orgies, or Group same-gender sexual practices in a religious setting. This was a common practice among Pagans at the time; e.g. in the temples dedicated to the Goddess Aphrodite. Casual homosexual activities outside of a committed, monogamous two person relationship, or Homosexual molestation between a man and a child. In Paul's day, the child victim was often a slave. These probably were the only forms of same-sex activity that Paul was familiar with. Paul may well have not been thinking of gays and lesbians in committed relationships when he wrote this passage. He never referred to such couples in his writings, and probably never encountered any during his lifetime. He might simply have been condemning homosexual orgies and other sexual activities outside of a monogamous same-sex relationship.




    This interpretation largely comes from the fact that translation of these verses is extremely difficult. Given that homosexuality is only mentioned very few times it is hard to get the Greek correct, and it is all together possible that Paul was trying to condemn what he saw as despicable practices going on in his own town.
 
 
 
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