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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    I didn't know Islam teaches its followers to butcher Jews, oh dear.
    It doesn't.

    I did know that it suggests non-muslims should be converted, but I don't really see how that's different to Jehovah's witnesses at my door or the crazy men who preach in town centres telling us we're all going to hell if we don't believe in God and that teenagers are spawns of the devil...oh yeah... and whilst I do relent that it's not as though Christianity is telling us to convert non-believers, it still happens.
    Islam doesn't suggest anything as much as that. It says that people should be invited to Islam, but not coerced or forced into it.
    If you've extended Islam to someone once, and they have refused, you don't need to do anything after that, your task is already complete.

    The Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion - truth stands out clear from error".
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    That Luke verse is taken entirely out of context. I believe it is a story, rather than any kind of commandment. And, as for the Matthew verse, many believe this to be a metaphor, and if it isn't we have the first commandment to go by: Love thy neighbor. As well as this it is backed up by Jesus:

    Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
    29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    Yeah, the first one is from a parable and i agree the second one is a metaphor.

    When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.
    Luke 22:35-38

    Also Hebrews 11: 30 - 40 show that Christianity does carry on in the tradition of the Old Testament conduct. They arent condemned and Jesus didnt nullify fighting and they followed the two commandmenst as well.

    Im not denying those commandments, every Muslim follows them.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    It just does not add up. God makes people who have no attraction to the opposite sex and then becomes INCREDIBLY FURIOUS with them when they commit fornication. Why would they be especially ill treated in Hell when God made them in the way they are. Why can't they be classified as normal sinners, or actually, to be very fair, classify the whole act as a very small sin.

    Surely, if somebody was created to have sexual attraction to the same sex, they should be punished less for fornicating than, say, a murderer who commits murder out of cold blood.
    Like i said. Get off TSR an speak to someone knowledgable. All your questions will be answered.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    Ah, well I'm sorry. I thought it was written by a Christian man to support your Christian claims, which I think from reading it does sound awfully pro-Chrstian >_<

    Where you know tonnes of Christians who give to charity, I know tonnes of Athiests who do. Maybe not 10%, I mean personally I don't but I don't earn other than my student loan, but I do give chunks of that to various charities which support illnesses my family have died for (as well as a doggy charity because my died), I do it for personal and emotional reasons rather than because my church tells me I should in order to be considered a true Christian though...

    Your evidence still only states that its Americans who do thought, which is fair enough if you're from America, but if you're English it doesn't really relate to you or me, does it?
    Well, most people give in one way or another at some point. Christians are, in my experience in the UK, more motivated to give before and after they have been afflicted by some kind of personal disease. Many of the churches I attend advocate giving 10% away to charity per year, and most of the congregation do this. I don't know if this goes on at a similar rate here in the UK as it does in America, but given that the American evidence shows that the religious give tons more time and money I would have thought this extends at least partially to the rest of the world.
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    (Original post by akhuma)
    AHHAHAHAH This is hilarious. One user asks a simple question. Yet after 8 pages of replies the user doesnt have an answer PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yall are great help.


    I personally would say. Check out how muslims SHOULD treat prisoners. not how they are treated. how they should be treated. Obviosly i could tell you but i think it would be best for you to do some research. Hopefully this will answer your question. Please do.
    I already know that Prisoners of War are to be treated with grace. They must not be tortured, killed and so on. However, it just takes one example to show that Islam is not peaceful. It's attitudes to homosexuality is a major one and one which I think is going to withstand any 'moderate's' attempts to win me over.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    I didn't know Islam teaches its followers to butcher Jews, oh dear. I did know that it suggests non-muslims should be converted, but I don't really see how that's different to Jehovah's witnesses at my door or the crazy men who preach in town centres telling us we're all going to hell if we don't believe in God and that teenagers are spawns of the devil...oh yeah... and whilst I do relent that it's not as though Christianity is telling us to convert non-believers, it still happens.

    See, I'm quite the patriot in some respects, and I do think that Muslims in our country who denounce the queen/gov't whatever and hold on to their Muslim beliefs relentlessly and suggest that British people should become Muslim are wrong and shouldn't be here if they don't like it, really. But my argument didn't go as far as British Muslims (although it should, really) I was considering the ones in Muslim countries rather than the ones that live here.

    Where I don't think it's right to judge followers of Islam in Islamic countries, you're right in saying that they shouldn't try to enforce their beliefs onto a Christian Country. Sorry, how dim of me not to take our own country into consideration >_< Ah well. I'll know for next time.
    :console: Stop puttin yourself down :p:

    While, as a humanist, i detest what Muslims do globally (and believe in), as a realist i realise that there's no point attempting to FORCE change on the Islamic world from without. That doesn't mean that it should be allowed to spread outside of its current sphere of influence. I am opposed to is the spread of Islam. I think this faith has gone far enough with its outdated bigotism and preaching of world domination. And i'm really saddened by the fact that Liberals equate tolerance of this faith with acceptance as something that must be respected and treated equally. They contribute to its spread more so than any Jihadist could hope to.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    It doesn't.

    Islam doesn't suggest anything as much as that. It says that people should be invited to Islam, but not coerced or forced into it.
    If you've extended Islam to someone once, and they have refused, you don't need to do anything after that, your task is already complete.

    The Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion - truth stands out clear from error".
    This is why arguments in religion piss me off, everyone has so many contrasting views it's hard to know what is true and what isn't. >_<

    I was always taught that the Qur'an was peaceful though, but I am willing to stand corrected (I probably don't have a choice in this thread? :p:)
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    (Original post by skippy786)
    Like i said. Get off TSR an speak to someone knowledgable. All your questions will be answered.
    Will do, Sir/Madame.

    Bye.
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    I am so sick of all the post about whther islam is violent. People seem to ignore that the bible says things like "if a man lays next to another man he should be stoned" condeming homosexuals to death. There are other quotes oppressing women because it was Eve that committed sin and women can only be saved through childbirth. Or that the pope cannot be a woman.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    It just does not add up. God makes people who have no attraction to the opposite sex and then becomes INCREDIBLY FURIOUS with them when they commit fornication. Why would they be especially ill treated in Hell when God made them in the way they are. Why can't they be classified as normal sinners, or actually, to be very fair, classify the whole act as a very small sin.

    Surely, if somebody was created to have sexual attraction to the same sex, they should be punished less for fornicating than, say, a murderer who commits murder out of cold blood.
    Sorry I didn't answer your question but I'll do my best to answer it now. Firstly, there is the question of what actually causes a person to be gay. Is it something which occurs at birth? or is it something that is caused by other factors (the way a person is brought up). I personally do not think it occurs at birth, therefore God does not "make" a person gay.

    BUT, even if I'm wrong, God judges a person based on how they live their life, so of course it would be taken into account what KIND of life that person had, right?

    And a sin is a sin. Just because it is becoming more and more socially accepted as well as frequent does not mean that it isn't a sin in most religions. The fact is that life isn't supposed to be all about pleasure. It is SUPPOSED to be difficult. The way that we act with the cards we are dealt is what defines us.

    I hope I've answered your question?
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    (Original post by Joshua_Harvey)
    I am so sick of all the post about whther islam is violent. People seem to ignore that the bible says things like "if a man lays next to another man he should be stoned" condeming homosexuals to death. There are other quotes oppressing women because it was Eve that committed sin and women can only be saved through childbirth. Or that the pope cannot be a woman.
    thank you...
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    This is why arguments in religion piss me off, everyone has so many contrasting views it's hard to know what is true and what isn't. >_<
    That's true, unfortunately. I'd say the best thing to do would be to have a flick through the Qur'an yourself, and formulate your own view rather than having contrasting ones thrown at you all the time.

    But really, I assure you that the Qur'an does not teach Muslims to just go round slaughtering Jews! :o:
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    (Original post by Joshua_Harvey)
    I am so sick of all the post about whther islam is violent. People seem to ignore that the bible says things like "if a man lays next to another man he should be stoned" condeming homosexuals to death. There are other quotes oppressing women because it was Eve that committed sin and women can only be saved through childbirth. Or that the pope cannot be a woman.
    There's a difference between what the Old Testament says and what Christians do.

    I implore you to find a single case of that within the last 100 years outside the deep south of the US (which is a third world country as far as i'm concerned).
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    (Original post by Joshua_Harvey)
    I am so sick of all the post about whther islam is violent. People seem to ignore that the bible says things like "if a man lays next to another man he should be stoned" condeming homosexuals to death. There are other quotes oppressing women because it was Eve that committed sin and women can only be saved through childbirth. Or that the pope cannot be a woman.
    You are aware that Muslims also follow the Old Testament, and therefore the verse 'if a man lies with another man' applies to them, aren't you?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    That's true, unfortunately. I'd say the best thing to do would be to have a flick through the Qur'an yourself, and formulate your own view rather than having contrasting ones thrown at you all the time.

    But really, I assure you that the Qur'an does not teach Muslims to just go round slaughtering Jews! :o:
    REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY :hmmmm2:

    Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress. [Surah 111, v. 112]

    And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....[Surah 11, v. 96]

    Evil is that for which they sell their souls... For disbelievers is a terrible doom.[Surah II, v. 90]

    Taste ye [Jews] the punishment of burning.[Surah III, v. 18 1]

    Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver.... Their treasures shall be heated in the dres of Hell, and their foreheads, sides and backs branded with them. . . . 'Taste then the punishment which is your due. [Surah IX, v. 35]

    "They [the Jews] are the heirs of Hell.... They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say ... When evil befalls you they rejoice." Ibid. [Surah 111, v. 117-120]

    Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.[Surah IV, v. 56]

    Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews.... And of their taking usury ... and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretenses. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.[Surah IV, v. 160, 161]

    Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief.[Surah IV, v. 46]

    They [the Jews] will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say, but more violent is the hatred which their breasts conceal.[Surah III, v. 117-120]

    In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.[Surah IV, v. 101]

    And thou seest [Jews and Christians] vying one with another in sin and transgression and their devouring of illicit gain. Verily evil is what they do. Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evilspeaking and their devouring of illicit gain? .... evil is their handiwork.[Surah V, v. 62, 63]

    O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. [Surah V, v. 51]

    The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

    Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] ... until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

    Allah fighteth against them [the Jews]. How perverse they are![Surah IX, v. 30]

    Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.... [Surah IX, v. 26-34]

    They [the Jews] spread evil in the land .... [Surah V, v. 62-66]

    [The Jews] knowingly perverted [the word of Allah], know of nothing except lies ... commit evil and become engrossed in sin. [Surah II, v. 71-85]
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    (Original post by rockrunride)
    Have you read the Qur'an or any of the Hadith?

    If not, brownie point to the media.
    Well said. :yes:
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    ...
    The Quran speaks about the good qualities of the Jews as well as the bad qualities. The Old Testament itself condemns and criticises the Jews.
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    (Original post by roots)
    The Quran speaks about the good qualities of the Jews as well as the bad qualities. The Old Testament itself condemns and criticises the Jews.
    The fact that you accept the stereotyping of "jews" and their "good and bad" qualities in your pathetic defence of brutality and racism (yes, the Jews are a people, as well as a religion) is quite ironic.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY :hmmmm2:

    Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress. [Surah 111, v. 112]

    And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....[Surah 11, v. 96]

    Evil is that for which they sell their souls... For disbelievers is a terrible doom.[Surah II, v. 90]

    Taste ye [Jews] the punishment of burning.[Surah III, v. 18 1]

    Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver.... Their treasures shall be heated in the dres of Hell, and their foreheads, sides and backs branded with them. . . . 'Taste then the punishment which is your due. [Surah IX, v. 35]

    "They [the Jews] are the heirs of Hell.... They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say ... When evil befalls you they rejoice." Ibid. [Surah 111, v. 117-120]

    Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.[Surah IV, v. 56]

    Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews.... And of their taking usury ... and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretenses. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.[Surah IV, v. 160, 161]

    Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief.[Surah IV, v. 46]

    They [the Jews] will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say, but more violent is the hatred which their breasts conceal.[Surah III, v. 117-120]

    In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.[Surah IV, v. 101]

    And thou seest [Jews and Christians] vying one with another in sin and transgression and their devouring of illicit gain. Verily evil is what they do. Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evilspeaking and their devouring of illicit gain? .... evil is their handiwork.[Surah V, v. 62, 63]

    O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. [Surah V, v. 51]

    The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

    Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] ... until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

    Allah fighteth against them [the Jews]. How perverse they are![Surah IX, v. 30]

    Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.... [Surah IX, v. 26-34]

    They [the Jews] spread evil in the land .... [Surah V, v. 62-66]

    [The Jews] knowingly perverted [the word of Allah], know of nothing except lies ... commit evil and become engrossed in sin. [Surah II, v. 71-85]
    Yes, really. If you think those quotes are telling Muslims to just go round butchering Jews, then you ought to read your own quotes more carefully

    Am I right in suggesting you just took those off a website without actually reading the context, or checking the correct translations?

    The closest vere you have quoted is this one:
    Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. 9:29
    Obviously, this verse is telling Muslims to fight against those people who are living in Islamic states, but refuse to pay the Jizya tax. (The same thing is done in this country - tax evaders are arrested).

    I think, if you quote entire verses, rather than just putting "..." in lieu of the areas that provide the proper context, it would be more honest of you.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    That Luke verse is taken entirely out of context. I believe it is a story, rather than any kind of commandment. And, as for the Matthew verse, many believe this to be a metaphor, and if it isn't we have the first commandment to go by: Love thy neighbor. As well as this it is backed up by Jesus:

    Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
    29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    hmm while reading this thread this post made me chuckle the most. You were quoting random sentences from the Qu'ran without any context or the sentence before and after. Yet when Muslim quote sentences from the New testament you immediately say "you don't get the context!!!!".

    Bit hypocritical, but it's not your fault, no religious person will accept criticism of verses in their holy books, there is always a way to use the wonderful words "context" "parable" or the best sentence I hear "well... I'm not exactly sure what it means, but it can't mean anything violent because Christianity teaches against violence. I am a robot, beep beep beeeep"(they don't say the robot bit though...).

    I hope religion fades and dies one day, but at the same time it's very interesting to see how a faith can override a humans own sense of morality.
 
 
 
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