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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I was unaware that Christians are acting as violently as Muslims currently are? Do you have any evidence for this?

    Of course there were the crusades throughout the middle ages, but this happened when the Catholic church was in charge and the layman couldn't read. Ever since people have been able to read the bible in their own language the religion has gotten more and more peaceful, whereas Islam has gone the other way.
    There are a couple of Christian KK Klan members arent there...
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Yes I have, actually. I am a Muslim myself
    So why are you dissing your own religion? Why are you a Muslim when you evidently dislike what you think Islam supports?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I was unaware that Christians are acting as violently as Muslims currently are? Do you have any evidence for this?

    Of course there were the crusades throughout the middle ages, but this happened when the Catholic church was in charge and the layman couldn't read. Ever since people have been able to read the bible in their own language the religion has gotten more and more peaceful, whereas Islam has gone the other way.
    Oh... I apologise. I must have been mistaken when I read of people picketing with signs saying that God hates Jews...God hates Blacks...God hates homosexuals...that was Islam...yeah it must have been...Their Christian God hates all those people.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

    Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

    Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".



    Here is my favourite quote from the so called religion of peace:

    Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


    If anyone is interested there are over 100 verses that call Muslims to violent war within the Quaran.
    Lol
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    (Original post by 07.11.1990)
    can i ask, was the qu'ran written by prophets and holy men (like the Bible) or was it written by God? If the former is the case then the Religious books, with respect, may not be 100% the word of God.

    I mean i dont know if they had law and order when the first Qu'ran was written. And I'm fairly sure the states of old wouldnt spend tax payers money on maintaining prisons for those who broke the law... So wouldnt execution be viewed as the common penalty... Im just sharing my thoughts
    Islam is basically just an Imperial Cult similar to those created by the Romans, which for some reason kept on going.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    The Qur'an doesn't say that.

    It says that if your wife is being disobedient of Islam, the first thing that you should do is to speak to her about it, and verbally give her a nudge in the right direction. If she persists in disobedience of Islam, you should not sleep with her. And if she still persists, then you "beat" her.
    Hadiths have clearly explained that by "beating" your wife, you are not supposed to physically hurt her. The point is just to express the gravity of her actions. It is explained in Hadith that this "beating" is essentially a tap on the shoulder with a siwak (basically a toothbrush).

    And the purpose of this verse is to tell husbands that they are not allowed to go further than this. You can't just start beating your wife violently because she didn't make you a cup of coffee.

    And it certainly doesn't say anything about confining them to rooms.

    So is the word 'beating' a mistranslation of the original arabic? I mean there is always that risk, when translating religious texts. I mean there may be words that can't be translated into English.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    Oh... I apologise. I must have been mistaken when I read of people picketing with signs saying that God hates Jews...God hates Blacks...God hates homosexuals...that was Islam...yeah it must have been...Their Christian God hates all those people.
    Well I don't doubt there is a very tiny minority of people who do this. Why don't you open your eyes? Go into your city centre and see who's feeding the homeless. It certainly isn't Muslims or Atheists in the majority of cases. A small percentage of every group are nut cases, atheism certainly has it's fair share, but Muslims seem to have a far larger percentage than all other groups.
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    (Original post by xSkyFire)
    That's why I'm not a blind believer. I'll do things at my own discretion and bare in mind some things in the Quran contradict themselves so in a way I believe you're meant to do things at your own discretion. You're meant to show love and kindness to others yet that clashes completely with beating your wife = wut??
    Number 1. Showing love and kindness to one another is not in complete contradiction to beating your wife. The Quran orders the Muslim to be kind to his wife but if he fears disobedience, to beat her as a last resort.

    Number 2. You state that some things in the Quran contradict each other. There is a verse in the Quran challenging the 'unbelievers' to find parts of the Quran to contradict each other. You do know that if what you say is true, the validity of the entire Quran is thrown into doubt...

    Number 3. This point backs up my fairly controversial statement in 'Number 1.'. In Islam, a nation is not allowed to aggressively attack another with the hope of conquering it. However, if the nation attacks first, you are allowed to take it over. Now, this does not mean that imperialism is at complete odds with Islam. In the same way, beating your wife does not clash with the kindness and peacefulness ordered in Islam. This is what mortifies me.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    I seem to confuse you a lot :p:

    You do indeed...Damn your superior sense of humour *shakes fist*
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    (Original post by 07.11.1990)
    There are a couple of Christian KK Klan members arent there...
    No doubt. However we are compelled to live like Jesus, and that is not living like Jesus. On the other hand if you were to live like Mohammed you would marry your sons wife, marry 11 year olds, wage brutal and bloody war, and rape slave girls. Brilliant person to look upto.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    You do indeed...Damn your superior sense of humour *shakes fist*
    I think you mean incomprehensible and not so humourous :p:

    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    Oh... I apologise. I must have been mistaken when I read of people picketing with signs saying that God hates Jews...God hates Blacks...God hates homosexuals...that was Islam...yeah it must have been...Their Christian God hates all those people.
    So you're comparing to the actions and beliefs of a large plurality of Muslims to those of a small and highly ostracized minority of Christians?

    And even so, "you did it too" is no response to a violent and intolerant faith.

    To the Muslim dude, the Koran specifically states (forgive me for not quoting, giving you the opportunity to deny and twist as you've gotten so accustomed to) that the goal of Islam is to create Dar es Salaam at the expense of Dar El Harab (or something, i forget the word). The first word means the Muslim world, and the second means the non muslim world. I don't know about you, but for ME, personally, world domination sounds a pretty aggresive policy .

    And even if Islam IS a peaceful religion, it is still socially backward, intolerant and far far past it's sell by date. While the rest of the world slowly progresses towards atheism and postmodernism here lies a bloc bang in the centre of the world that seems to become more radicalized by the decade.

    Maybe i'm just a bigoted filthy morality devoid westerner, but this, to me, isn't right.
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    (Original post by rockrunride)
    So why are you dissing your own religion? Why are you a Muslim when you evidently dislike what you think Islam supports?
    Have you never heard of a group of people called 'questioning believers'. They, unlike the vast majority of blind believers, actually question things that they disagree with or are stumbled by. In other words, they are a little more human than most religious people.

    Happy now.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Well I don't doubt there is a very tiny minority of people who do this. Why don't you open your eyes? Go into your city centre and see who's feeding the homeless. It certainly isn't Muslims or Atheists in the majority of cases. A small percentage of every group are nut cases, atheism certainly has it's fair share, but Muslims seem to have a far larger percentage than all other groups.
    What a ridiculous thing to say... I didn't realise you got morals or sense of humanity from religion! Does this mean I can stop volunteering and go slay babies now? :rolleyes:

    You're right, there is a minority in every religion and the muslims you see or hear wanting the west to suffer and die are exactly that minorities. It's a pretty broad and incorrect generalisation to make that Muslims are all inherently evil.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Have you never heard of a group of people called 'questioning believers'. They, unlike the vast majority of blind believers, actually question things that they disagree with or are stumbled by. In other words, they are a little more human than most religious people.

    Happy now.
    To be honest with if you are sincere with your concerns and questions then shouldn't you speak to your nearest Imam or get in contact with a scholar at a Muslim school? Maybe even a Muslim message-board as there are a few people there who can explain certain doctrines better than anyone in this thread.

    People are always making comments about religions, not just Islam, yet rarely ever talk about their questions with those who actually are in positions to answer them in detail. There is a lot of ignorance and misunderstandings across the board when religion is a subject.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Well I don't doubt there is a very tiny minority of people who do this. Why don't you open your eyes? Go into your city centre and see who's feeding the homeless. It certainly isn't Muslims or Atheists in the majority of cases. A small percentage of every group are nut cases, atheism certainly has it's fair share, but Muslims seem to have a far larger percentage than all other groups.

    One of the 5 pillars in Islam is.
    'Feed the poor, to give money to those who have got little or haven't got any.'

    This pillar is huge, it is so important that Muslims can't enter heaven if they don't accomplish this duty. So you can't say that Muslims don't feed the poor.

    :no:
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Have you never heard of a group of people called 'questioning believers'. They, unlike the vast majority of blind believers, actually question things that they disagree with or are stumbled by. In other words, they are a little more human than most religious people.

    Happy now.
    I would be, if your words didn't follow the exact tone of the right-wing media.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    What a ridiculous thing to say... I didn't realise you got morals or sense of humanity from religion! Does this mean I can stop volunteering and go slay babies now?

    You're right, there is a minority in every religion and the muslims you see or hear wanting the west to suffer and die are exactly that minorities. It's a pretty broad and incorrect generalisation to make that Muslims are all inherently evil.
    Where did I say that they are all inherently evil. No one is inherently evil. There are however many more extremists within Islam, the combination of outcasting yourself in ghettos or in 100% Muslim societies and the Quaran means this was always bound to happen. From what i've read about the life of Mohammed I am pretty certain which group he would be a part of.

    I have already proven countless times on this forum that Christians give far more to charity than non-believers; and before you start, that is in like for like scenarios. Meaning if I earn 20k and so do you, the odds are I will give a higher percentage.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Number 1. Showing love and kindness to one another is not in complete contradiction to beating your wife. The Quran orders the Muslim to be kind to his wife but if he fears disobedience, to beat her as a last resort.

    Number 2. You state that some things in the Quran contradict each other. There is a verse in the Quran challenging the 'unbelievers' to find parts of the Quran to contradict each other. You do know that if what you say is true, the validity of the entire Quran is thrown into doubt...

    Number 3. This point backs up my fairly controversial statement in 'Number 1.'. In Islam, a nation is not allowed to aggressively attack another with the hope of conquering it. However, if the nation attacks first, you are allowed to take it over. Now, this does not mean that imperialism is at complete odds with Islam. In the same way, beating your wife does not clash with the kindness and peacefulness ordered in Islam. This is what mortifies me.
    Well my definition of kindness is loving someone more than they would deserve. Therefore by my definition not all things exactly match perfectly in the Quran, again at your own discretion.

    Still peaceful by the way I've been taught, maybe you were taught more traditionally but I don't really care about what you want to do tbh.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    The Qur'an doesn't say that.

    It says that if your wife is being disobedient of Islam, the first thing that you should do is to speak to her about it, and verbally give her a nudge in the right direction. If she persists in disobedience of Islam, you should not sleep with her. And if she still persists, then you "beat" her.
    Hadiths have clearly explained that by "beating" your wife, you are not supposed to physically hurt her. The point is just to express the gravity of her actions. It is explained in Hadith that this "beating" is essentially a tap on the shoulder with a siwak (basically a toothbrush).

    And the purpose of this verse is to tell husbands that they are not allowed to go further than this. You can't just start beating your wife violently because she didn't make you a cup of coffee.

    And it certainly doesn't say anything about confining them to rooms.
    Actually, it is not if she is disobedient of Islam but if you just fear her disobedience (general disobedience. It is not specified.).

    Tap her shoulder with a toothbrush? Have you gone crazy? What on earth is that going to do against a disobedient wife? She'll just laugh in your face. Well, I would (if i were a female)
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    No doubt. However we are compelled to live like Jesus, and that is not living like Jesus. On the other hand if you were to live like Mohammed you would marry your sons wife, marry 11 year olds, wage brutal and bloody war, and rape slave girls. Brilliant person to look upto.
    Its a debate lol. Dont forget though there are plenty of great Muslim people, in fact im confident in saying most are. Most people in th world are good, right?
 
 
 
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