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    (Original post by roots)
    Yes, these verses deal with war.

    Islam is a complete religion, it recognises that wars are inevitable so we are instructed how to conduct ourselves. We have been given the right to defend ourselves.

    You're a Christian right, have you read the Bible. Is it not aggressive.
    The people of the past were also instructed to fight.

    And OP, its punishment not violence. Alot of Muslims do behave crazily without following the proper laws.
    Well, war has not been waged in Christianities name for hundreds of years. As soon as we could read the bible for ourselves, and interpretation was taken out of the hands of Catholocism, peacefulness of Christians increased dramatically.

    And when you say Islam is a complete religion, I presume you mean that it is an all encompassing ideology designed to run and take over the world?
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Ok. The key word here was peaceful - not dangerous. I don't see anything dangerous about Islam. With regards to military warfare, it is not aggressive. What you argue is that Islam's external relations are peaceful, and I think that on the whole they are.

    I have not been deceived by the media. Actually, I am a Muslim myself. When it comes to Islam's internal relations, i.e. in dealing with women, adulterers, homosexuals and so on, the facts are clear - Islam is NOT peaceful. It only takes one act to be labeled 'not peaceful'.
    I find it hard to believe you are a Muslim.

    You fail to understand the laws and principles of Islaam. And that is a clear fact. If you were a realy Muslim, you wouldn't be asking, well saying such things. It simple goes down to the lack of understanding of the religion you have.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are a Muslim. Therefore you believe. Therefore it does not matter what the society around you dictates; to Islam homosexual acts are wrong. This is God's will. And who are you to question that?
    I am a person on the verge of Atheism and THAT is why I am questioning the religion that I was brought up to blindly believe in.

    I am sick and tired of blind followers of religion, and from what you say, you most probably are one as well.

    'I am a Muslim. Therefore I believe.' Sounds a bit like what a computer would say after some simplistic programming.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are a Muslim. Therefore you believe. Therefore it does not matter what the society around you dictates; to Islam homosexual acts are wrong. This is God's will. And who are you to question that?
    They are also wrong in Christianity.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Do you have some kind of a Hadith or Qur'anic quote to support that?

    The Qur'an is full of statements which essentially say that the job of a Muslim is simply to admonish, warn, tell people about Islam etc. but not to actually compel them to become Muslim.

    For example:
    "Let there be no compulsion in religion - truth stands out clear from error"
    "It is the same whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe"
    "You are simply a warner, you are not one to manage the affairs of others"

    etc.


    As far as I've understood it, 'Jihad' simply means to make a great amount of effort to do anything.

    For example, there is a Hadith which states that the prophet said to a certain person "The best Jihad (effort) for you would be to look after your parents".
    Yeah, it was a bit of an exaggeration. It is meant to be 'defence' of Islam only, but I thought there was an element of spreading Islam/asking your enemies to accept Islam.

    'Jihad' does mean 'struggle', but in a religious context, so it's a struggle to please God. Correct me if I am wrong.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The point is that Islam has a far larger minority who can be viewed as extremist. Far higher than other religions, that is for sure.
    Please tell me how you reached to this conclusion. Actually, most Muslims in the world are not even located in the Middle East, they are in Asia. And once again, if this even is true, it is due to the conditions in which Muslim nations have developed in the world.
    Look at the whole Palestine/Israel thing. This hasn't happened in other Muslim nations because they haven't been treated like Palestine has by Israel.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    No it does not. In fact, his post was made without reading my first opening post of the thread. He is the type of person who just reads the title and posts away. The thread is about whether Islam is peaceful or not in it's social 'policy'. Not external 'foreign policy'.
    No...It was you who did not read properly. He answered your question, you chose to ignore it. He simply stated he lives in a foreign country, but disliked the way muslims are stereo typed because of one group of Idiotic extremists.

    And I'm not looking for a debate dude, it's up to you what you do.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Well, theres a reason for this. Most religious teachings are full of contradictions that allow tonnes of different interpretations and thus different from "the truth" isn't that big of a deal.

    In Islam, there is only one "word of god", totally uncontradictory, clear, coherent and written at once. There is no room for disagreement or debate.

    While Islam certainly DID have its period of tolerance and culture did flourish upto the 12th century AD, after this they seemed to have hit a rut and gone back to religious intolerance of the 8th century (probably because after the 12th century Islam had consolidated and did not need to appear accepting or tolerant in an effort to placate the conquered populations, who were by now converted to Islam). Also, after the 12th century, Islam didn't grow all that much, so they didn't really need to be tolerant to accept conquered populations (although the Ottoman Empire was extremely liberal at the time, and far more tolerant in many ways than almost all contemporary western kingdoms).

    And islam certainly had its various faiths. There's many different schools: Ibadi, Shiite, Sunni are just three i can think off the top of my head. I don't really know how they tick in terms of tolerance of other schools though (although it doesn't seem they like each other all that much! Look at Iraq and the sickening sectarian violence of the 5/6/7 years).
    Ah, well I didn't know any of that :p: but, it still doesn't really make sense to insult Islam simply because it's different. I mean, aren't we as sophisticated Westeners supposed to be against discrimination? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by taigan)

    Yes the Qu'ran DOES call for tolerance of other religions!

    God, the Most Exalted, said: "Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another." [1] As is borne out by this command in the Qur'an, Muslims are to believe in all of the prophets sent by God which were sent to humanity. What this entails is that they are not permitted to show any form of disrespect to any prophet or to the specific religion which he taught to his followers.
    Here are a few things from the Quaran you might be interested to read:

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."



    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.


    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.


    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."


    That's just a few verses for you to sink your teeth into.
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    (Original post by taigan)

    THANK YOU.
    That is why I find it offensive when someone thinks that I support terrorism and such just because of my religion. Qu'ran actually condemns murder and calls for all Muslims to accept other religions/beliefs and not be violent.
    As the saying goes, kill an innocent person, it's as if you killed mankind. Save a person, it's as if you saved mankind. Something along the lines, that is one of the teachings within Islaam.

    I haven't seen any other religion that gives so much respect to parents, neighbours, elders etc. Calls for peace and the so on so fourth. But, due to some misleading people, Islaam has lost its rights as a peaceful religion.

    And its also correct to say..... if Islaam isn't a peaceful religion from what people believe, I would like for them to bring me a religion which is peaceful.
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    (Original post by MrStick)
    I find it hard to believe you are a Muslim.

    You fail to understand the laws and principles of Islaam. And that is a clear fact. If you were a realy Muslim, you wouldn't be asking, well saying such things. It simple goes down to the lack of understanding of the religion you have.
    Why do you find it hard to believe that I am a Muslim? Because I am questioning?

    Provide me with some evidence to support your claims.
    Provide me with evidence, other than mine below, that shows that I do not understand the laws and principles of Islam.
    (Actually, I will provide it. I just like most Muslims, do not understand or know everything about Islam.)

    Your arguments are baseless.
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    Ah, well I didn't know any of that :p: but, it still doesn't really make sense to insult Islam simply because it's different. I mean, aren't we as sophisticated Westeners supposed to be against discrimination? :rolleyes:
    Do you discriminate against nazis and racists?
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    (Original post by MrStick)
    I would like for them to bring me a religion which is peaceful.
    Well, would it hurt you to say that no religion is peaceful?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Here are a few things from the Quaran you might be interested to read:

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."



    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.


    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.


    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."


    That's just a few verses for you to sink your teeth into.
    Oh interesting. You can copy and paste verses form the Qur'aan and not understand its context. Great job mate

    You will surely get far like this -_-
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    I am a person on the verge of Atheism and THAT is why I am questioning the religion that I was brought up to blindly believe in.

    I am sick and tired of blind followers of religion, and from what you say, you most probably are one as well.

    'I am a Muslim. Therefore I believe.' Sounds a bit like what a computer would say after some simplistic programming.
    The point I was trying to make is that there is no two ways about it; Islam dictates practicing homosexuals will go to hell. Either this disagrees with you enough to leave the religion, or it doesn't.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Well, war has not been waged in Christianities name for hundreds of years. As soon as we could read the bible for ourselves, and interpretation was taken out of the hands of Catholocism, peacefulness of Christians increased dramatically.

    And when you say Islam is a complete religion, I presume you mean that it is an all encompassing ideology designed to run and take over the world?
    It has still been waged by Christian countries where the leaders have been Christians.

    Its an all encompassing ideology which is capable of taking over the world perhaps if God wills and its an all encompassing ideology which you can choose to or not to follow.

    Research the Bible in detail you'll find that Muslims are the ones who do the will of God and follow the prophetic example of Jesus (Pbuh)
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Dude, you state your beliefs which are not so beautifully worded but they are completely baseless.

    Ok. There is a base and it is as follows. "I believe that the Qu'ran was the work of the devil as we have free will and therefore God will not stop Muslims in following an evil religion." WTF WTF WTF!!!

    Please elaborate on this. I cannot understand what you are trying to convey.
    Or can somebody else decipher this work of brilliance.

    Thank you.
    Well it's simple, Christianity argues that Jesus was the son of God right? So is it not possible that Muhammad was a messenger of the Devil? As we have free will it's reasonable to assume that God would not stop Muslims in following a wrong and evil religion just as God does not stop things such as rapists and murderers. I'm just saying that it is possible that Islam is not peaceful due to the fact that it was created by the Devil.

    There, my work of brilliance has been deciphered 'dude'.
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    (Original post by MrStick)
    Oh interesting. You can copy and paste verses form the Qur'aan and not understand its context. Great job mate

    You will surely get far like this -_-
    Rofl, so I misinterpreted a verse saying not to take Christians and Jews as friends. What it really meant was give them cuddles and kisses? Idiot.
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    (Original post by roots)
    It has still been waged by Christian countries where the leaders have been Christians.

    Its an all encompassing ideology which is capable of taking over the world perhaps if God wills and its an all encompassing ideology which you can choose to or not to follow.

    Research the Bible in detail you'll find that Muslims are the ones who do the will of God and follow the prophetic example of Jesus (Pbuh)
    It doesn't matter if it was waged by Christians or not. It was not waged in Christianities name. Throughout history Christianity has been utilised to make people fight for a cause they would not believe in, but the bible is definately against this.
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    Jihad is talked by Jesus him self... im using your bible against you! when you mentioned jihad and use it to criticize Muslims... you dug a hole for your self... because Jesus said "bring my enemies here and kill them in front of me" Luke 19 verse 27...the problem with the Christians and non Muslims is that we know your own bible more than you! You are so ignorant you do not know your own book! So when you criticize us about jihad you trap yourselves! Because Jesus himself preached Jihad!
 
 
 
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