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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Well, would it hurt you to say that no religion is peaceful?
    That my friend is false. 'no religion is peaceful'.

    I would explain, but I'll just be wasting my time because you lack understanding of the religion.

    And my arguements are baseless?

    What arguements? o.O
    Did you bump your head or something that you got me mixed up with someone else?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    There are no other studies that exist. However, it seems I am validated in my view that Christians give more in like for like scenarios. The study does not say that Christians give far more as a whole, it states that it's more in like for like scenarios. Surely your claim that Atheists are just as giving in like for like scenarios has been reputed by this.
    My beliefs aren't simply reputed by a theory you posted that people like myself are less charitable than Christians. It's a pretty unfair statement to make and is yet again, proof that Christianity attempts to segregate society and tries to higlight its supposed superiority to the rest of us.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    Well, it would be extreme to say that you are not allowed to have sex. For a gay person, the only people that they can have sex with is the members of their own sex. They are not aroused by the opposite sex. The only option for them would be to engage in homosexual acts with members of the same sex or abstain from it completely. But it is pretty extreme to order them to abstain - I think even detrimental to mental health and physical health if you have a high libido.
    Well first of all, you're assuming that they are homosexual by nature - which isn't necessarily true. Nothing of this nature has been proven.

    Secondly, you're assuming that homosexuality is an in-built, permanent trait - which once again, isn't necessarily true. In fact there are many people who claim to be ex-homosexuals.

    And finally - it does sound a bit extreme to tell someone they can never have sex (although the Qur'an isn't necessarily saying that, there are plenty of people who claim to be homosexual, having already had sex with people of the opposite sex), however, when the Qur'an prohibits it so strongly, we can assume there is some wisdom behind the prohibition. I've tried to guess at why it might be prohibited, but I can't say anything for certain.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The point I was trying to make is that there is no two ways about it; Islam dictates practicing homosexuals will go to hell. Either this disagrees with you enough to leave the religion, or it doesn't.
    Jews and Christians or more precisely the laws of the prophets do not permit homosexuality.

    Homosexual feelings may be a test, a person may get desires but he shouldn't act on that. He can still have relations with a woman. We are all tested in different ways. OP im sure you know the Muslim principle that we are not here to enjoy and gain pleasure from this world. It is a life of struggle and of striving and yes sometimes we have to fight.
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    (Original post by taigan)
    Please tell me how you reached to this conclusion. Actually, most Muslims in the world are not even located in the Middle East, they are in Asia. And once again, if this even is true, it is due to the conditions in which Muslim nations have developed in the world.
    Look at the whole Palestine/Israel thing. This hasn't happened in other Muslim nations because they haven't been treated like Palestine has by Israel.
    Well, wherever there are Muslims there is ethnic trouble usually instigated by them. Just look at Pakistan, which was created by Muslims from India once they were a high enough percentage of the country to demand a sizeable segment of it for themselves. Many Muslim countries will kill converters to Christianity. Indeed 36% of Muslim youthes in this country believe converters should be punished by death:http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/20...lim-youth.html. To me this is a far higher percentage of extremists.

    Plus our society is strongly affected by Islamic extremism. But where else in the world sees the problems we get from other religions?
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    (Original post by nouvelle_vague)
    My beliefs aren't simply reputed by a theory you posted that people like myself are less charitable than Christians. It's a pretty unfair statement to make and is yet again, proof that Christianity attempts to segregate society and tries to higlight its supposed superiority to the rest of us.
    Christianity does not try to do this, if they did there would be countless more studies proving my point. The point here is that you believe, where as I know, by studying evidence. The evidence does not dictate that you will definately give less, just that you are more likely to.
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    (Original post by FinalFlash)
    No...It was you who did not read properly. He answered your question, you chose to ignore it. He simply stated he lives in a foreign country, but disliked the way muslims are stereo typed because of one group of Idiotic extremists.

    And I'm not looking for a debate dude, it's up to you what you do.
    "I just have to say that I find this thread to be quite offensive. I am a Muslim and have lived in Saudi Arabia for most of my life (although I am not Saudi, I am Lebanese). One of the things I have noticed while growing up is how easy it is to stereotype Islam as a religion raising terrorists and violent people. BUT IT IS NOT.

    NOWHERE in these basic 5 pillars does Islam teach its followers to be violent. It teaches them to be charitable, emphatic and faithful.

    I'll move on to the concept of Jihad which is commonly misunderstood. Unfortunately, many extremists claim that when they commit terrorist acts, they are doing Jihad (which is in the Qu'ran). But they are MISTAKEN. Jihad means "Striving" NOT "Holy War". Holy War actually originated with the European Crusaders during the 11th century.

    Also, I will say that many extremists have become this way, not because of Islam, but because of the conditions and situations they were brought up in. A man raised in a constant war will grow up to be belligerent. This is unfortunate but is true and has caused the stereotyping of Muslims to be terrorists, which I find very offensive.

    Another fact is that most Muslims are located in Asia and NOT the Middle East. So why are Muslims in the Middle East seen as violent? It is because of the conditioning (wars, political battles) that we live in and NOT what our religion teaches us. I would like to stress this point.

    Islam teaches the opposite, it condemns murder, tells Muslims to accept and RESPECT other religions. Also, regarding the treatment of women. In Islam, there is no difference between men and women's relationship to God; they receive identical rewards and punishments for their conduct. The Qu'ran STATES THIS.

    Therefore I find arguments against Islam groundless, when I have been raised as a Muslim. I have NOT been taught to hate Jews or people of any other religion EVEN if they disrespect mine. I HAVE been taught to treat women without ANY discrimination and I have been taught to resolve my problems without the use of violence."

    Sorry. I have just copied and pasted most of what he said.
    I have read it properly. It does not answer discrimination and oppression towards women, adulterers, homosexuals, people who commit apostasy and so on. In other words, he did not even bother to read my thread opener. He did not answer my question but jumped onto another question. If he had read my opening thread, he would have known that I am not interested in Islamist Terrorism and relations with people of other religions but Islam's internal relations with people under its rule - i.e. in a Sharia state.

    I am not going to carry this on any further. You are just wrong.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It doesn't matter if it was waged by Christians or not. It was not waged in Christianities name. Throughout history Christianity has been utilised to make people fight for a cause they would not believe in, but the bible is definitely against this.
    Its the same with Islam, you can wage violence in the name of Islam but that doesnt mean you are justified to do so.

    Jesus (pbuh) wasn't as teddybear like as is made out. Jesus ministry was not about establishing Gods religion throughout the earth, about fighting those who are oppressors or those who oppress you but that doesn't null and void fighting when it is called for. As you know Jesus did not bring us a new religion.

    When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. (Deuteronomy, 20:10-15)

    When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, ***********, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deuteronomy 7:1-5)
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    :laugh: I love reading these threads about religion when Elipsis gets involved. He never loses the arugment, the guy should be knighted by the queen.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Here are a few things from the Quaran you might be interested to read:

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."



    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.


    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.


    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."


    That's just a few verses for you to sink your teeth into.


    Regarding these statements, I would like to say that the meaning has been CONFUSED because of TRANSLATING! I will make everything clear:

    In the first place, we would like to stress that Islam urges all Muslims to deal kindly and justly with all people. Muslims should have good relations with all people. At school, at work, in your neighborhood, etc.

    The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends.

    Islam teaches us that we should deal even with our enemies with justice and fairness. Allah says in the Qur'an in the beginning of the same Surat Al-Madah: [O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.]

    In the verse you quoted, the word "Awliya" is used. It is a plural and its singular is "wali". The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master".

    In the Qur'an this word is used for God, such as [Allah is the Protector (or Lord and Master) of those who believe. He takes them out from the depths of darkness to light] (Al- Baqarah 2: 257)

    There are many other references in the Qur'an that give this meaning. The same word is also sometimes used in the Qur'an for human beings, such as [And whosoever is killed unjustly, We have granted his next kin "wali" the authority (to seek judgement or punishment in this case)] (Al-Isra' 17 :33)

    The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Maidah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

    It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other.

    Muslims are allowed to have non-Muslims as friends as long as they keep their own faith and commitment to Islam pure and strong. You are correct in pointing out that a Muslim man is also allowed to marry a Jewish or Christian woman. It is obvious that one marries someone for love and friendship. If friendship between Muslims and Jews or Christians was forbidden, then why would Islam allow a Muslim man to marry a Jew or Christian woman? It is the duty of Muslims to patronize Muslims. They should not patronize any one who is against their faith or who fights their faith, even if they were their fathers and brothers. Allah says: [O you who believe! Take not for protectors (awliya') your fathers and your brothers if they love unbelief above faith. If any of you do so, they are indeed wrong-doers.] (Al-Tawbah 9: 23)
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    (Original post by MrStick)
    That my friend is false. 'no religion is peaceful'.

    I would explain, but I'll just be wasting my time because you lack understanding of the religion.

    And my arguements are baseless?

    What arguements? o.O
    Did you bump your head or something that you got me mixed up with someone else?
    Aye. Buddhism, Jainism, Baha'i ism are about as peaceful as they get.
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    (Original post by roots)
    Jews and Christians or more precisely the laws of the prophets do not permit homosexuality.

    Homosexual feelings may be a test, a person may get desires but he shouldn't act on that. He can still have relations with a woman. We are all tested in different ways. OP im sure you know the Muslim principle that we are not here to enjoy and gain pleasure from this world. It is a life of struggle and of striving and yes sometimes we have to fight.
    NO HE CANNOT HAVE RELATIONS WITH WOMEN YOU IGNORANT LITTLE &*#!.

    I know gay people who have no sexual feeings WHAT SO EVER for people of the opposite sex. Not interested in porn or anything else that might excite a heterosexual person. How the hell do you expect them to have relations with women in this case.
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    (Original post by roots)
    Jews and Christians or more precisely the laws of the prophets do not permit homosexuality.

    Homosexual feelings may be a test, a person may get desires but he shouldn't act on that. He can still have relations with a woman. We are all tested in different ways. OP im sure you know the Muslim principle that we are not here to enjoy and gain pleasure from this world. It is a life of struggle and of striving and yes sometimes we have to fight.
    From studying the bible I have come to the belief that if a homosexual is subject to the same rules a hetrosexual is before engaging in fornication, i.e. one life partner, then that would be ok. However it is no concern to me, that is for homosexuals to decide. My commandment is to love my neighbor regardless of their sexual persuasion. Afterall, we all sin. Who am I to judge them because their sin is different?, if it is indeed a sin.
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    (Original post by TRStemporaryusername)
    DUDE. I am getting this all from the Quran. There are verses that have shocked me. It is very clear in saying that if a woman is disobedient to her husband, he should beat her and confine her to a room until she is obedient. I am not making any of this up. I have found this in the Quran.
    Your getting this all wrong. I reccomend you speak to someone who has studied islam thoroughly. And then ask them these questions. Even the companions of the prophet (pbuh) had difficulty understanding some verses, and they were better than we can ever be. So forget about TSR an go to your local mosque an speak to someone who HAS knowledge.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    So, in pursuit of lesser Jihad, one could easily be forgiven for thinking that suicide bombing is acceptable? Especially with these two verses:

    Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
    Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
    Do you not realise your selective choosing of verses from the Quran are only undermining your point? At first I thought it was cute but now I feel I have to tap you on the shoulder. You are interested in theology and that's understandable, but what I don't understand is how someone who takes an interest in religion can make the error in using specific verses taken out of context to support his argument?

    If you took any number of the verses you've highlighted to an Imam, for example, he would think you're trolling him. If you like, I can give you some material which has commentary of each verse and chapter. This way, when you see a verse on a blog or website, and they claim it means a certain thing, you can check with the commentary and cross-reference it and make a judgement yourself. Either way, you won't be volleying random verses that only contradict the points you follow them up with
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Do you discriminate against nazis and racists?
    I'm not really sure how that relates? Being discriminative against racists because they display an intolerance for those of different race, and discriminating against Nazis for their role in the murder and villification of Jewish people at the whim of their Fuhrer is not really the same me saying it's unfair to be intolerant of a religion and the people who practice it?
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    (Original post by skippy786)
    Your getting this all wrong. I reccomend you speak to someone who has studied islam thoroughly. And then ask them these questions. Even the companions of the prophet (pbuh) had difficulty understanding some verses, and they were better than we can ever be. So forget about TSR an go to your local mosque an speak to someone who HAS knowledge.
    Hah, who better to ask about their religion than someone who will only benefit from giving a confused youth a moderate message in an attempt to keep them in the fold? A pretty huge conflict of interest there: asking a religious person about flaws in their religion!
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    (Original post by roots)
    Its the same with Islam, you can wage violence in the name of Islam but that doesnt mean you are justified to do so.

    Jesus (pbuh) wasn't as teddybear like as is made out. Jesus ministry was not about establishing Gods religion throughout the earth, about fighting those who are oppressors or those who oppress you but that doesn't null and void fighting when it is called for. As you know Jesus did not bring us a new religion.

    When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. (Deuteronomy, 20:10-15)

    When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, ***********, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deuteronomy 7:1-5)
    You are taking this from the Old testament, not the New Testament. The Old Testament was created to show Jews the correct path to survive and thrive. If you can find anything similar in the New Testament I would be interested to see it. And if you can find me anything that shows me Jesus was not the 'teddy bear' I am making him out to be, that would be great to see.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    From studying the bible I have come to the belief that if a homosexual is subject to the same rules a hetrosexual is before engaging in fornication, i.e. one life partner, then that would be ok. However it is no concern to me, that is for homosexuals to decide. My commandment is to love my neighbor regardless of their sexual persuasion. Afterall, we all sin. Who am I to judge them because their sin is different?, if it is indeed a sin.
    See you decided that, you're nt supposed to do that.

    Yes that is one law to follow but that doesn't mean you disregard all the other laws.

    So have you diregarded the law of the Prophets and the law of Paul. Yes or No.

    You love your neigbour yes but you do all other thinsg as well.
 
 
 
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