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    I've just finished reading this, and must say, a very interesting read. Especially in relation to the current economic crisis, the alternative view proposed in this book is worth considering.

    It definitely highlights some flaws in the principle of altruism. I would recommend that you read this after reading "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand.

    Anyone read this? Opinions?
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    My favorite non-factual book ever. No contest.

    I'd recommend not reading The Fountainhead at all though. Read Anthem instead.
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    Kids:

    Keep the **** away from Ayn Rand.

    Love,

    Thomm.
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    Care to expand Thomm?
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    I haven't read it but, in case you didn't know, it was one of the influences for the great videogame Bioshock.
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    I want to read it but I am intimidated by it.
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    I'm a third way through it now and I'm enjoying it very much!

    I read The Fountainhead after playing Bioshock - which I then wrote an essay on for my A2 media coursework - and decided to give Atlas Shrugged a go.

    Objectivism is - IMO - a flawed philosophy but Rand's books are inspiring. People who say they are unrealistic and ridiculous are missing the point.
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    (Original post by tlozoot)
    Objectivism is - IMO - a flawed philosophy
    Why is it?
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    (Original post by Eliot Rosewater)
    Why is it?
    Isn't the idea of objective morality incompatible with individualism?

    Rand goes to lengths to praise peoples individual ideas in spite of others opinions but calls them evil if their individual ideas are not the same as her objective morality. Objectivism says that if you do not match this objective morality then you are evil, thereby taking away the capacity for individual thought.

    Rand herself dismissed others if their ideas differed to hers -where 's the celebration of individual spirit in that?
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    (Original post by tlozoot)
    Isn't the idea of objective morality incompatible with individualism?

    Rand goes to lengths to praise peoples individual ideas in spite of others opinions but calls them evil if their individual ideas are not the same as her objective morality. Objectivism says that if you do not match this objective morality then you are evil, thereby taking away the capacity for individual thought.

    Rand herself dismissed others if their ideas differed to hers -where 's the celebration of individual spirit in that?
    Okay. I just wanted to see what you'd say because almost everyone ever says her philosophy is flawed. It's an easy statement to make and appear smart. I wanted to see you back it up. And you did.
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    (Original post by Eliot Rosewater)
    Okay. I just wanted to see what you'd say because almost everyone ever says her philosophy is flawed. It's an easy statement to make and appear smart. I wanted to see you back it up. And you did.
    Perhaps the philosophy would be better named Subjectivism, but I'm not exactly a philosophy expert. Anyone care to argue why this shouldn't be the case, or why Objectivism isn't flawed, or flawed in another way?
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    Yes, this is an area I struggle with also; how her idea of Objectivism is contradicted in her book.

    She says an Objective Morality is required, but then claims for every rule to be rationally examined. However, to what standard must an idea be examined against?
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    (Original post by dodgyant)
    She says an Objective Morality is required, but then claims for every rule to be rationally examined. However, to what standard must an idea be examined against?
    Rand advocates the Aristotlean principles of reason as the 'standard'; the three axioms are the titles of Atlas Shrugged's three sections.
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    Ayn Rand summed up in three words:

    Men are lazy.
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    The unrealistic, cardboard-cutout nature of the characters make it a poor piece of progaganda.
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    (Original post by tlozoot)
    Perhaps the philosophy would be better named Subjectivism, but I'm not exactly a philosophy expert. Anyone care to argue why this shouldn't be the case, or why Objectivism isn't flawed, or flawed in another way?
    Objectivism wasn't her preferred name for the philosophy, it was simply that other names were taken by other established and unrelated philosophies. Indeed, subjectivism is already "taken" as a name (google it).

    I would link the interview where she explains this, but I really can't be bothered to search for it, it's probably on youtube if you're really interested.


    I find Objectivism an appealing philosophy, though I can see it's flaws and recognise why it is criticised, it is however, an interesting point of view.

    Her books seem to suffer from marmite syndrome to be honest, some people love them, some hate them which is why I've refrained from reading them for the moment.
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    I intend to read this over the summer.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Rand advocates the Aristotlean principles of reason as the 'standard'; the three axioms are the titles of Atlas Shrugged's three sections.
    This may seem like a silly question, but how would you use this in a real-life application?

    I mean, if you're in a position to save one or ten, what would your logic or 'rationale' be?
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    (Original post by dodgyant)
    This may seem like a silly question, but how would you use this in a real-life application?

    I mean, if you're in a position to save one or ten, what would your logic or 'rationale' be?
    I don't think I understand you.

    The titles of the sections of Atlas Shrugged are:

    Non-contradiction
    Either-Or
    A is A

    These are the standards of reason that Rand advocates - the epistemology of Objectivism is reason. Your question seems an ethical one. To save one or ten? You'd need to give a scenario to have any coherent answer. Objectivist ethics are rational self-interest.
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    (Original post by tlozoot)
    I don't think I understand you.

    The titles of the sections of Atlas Shrugged are:

    Non-contradiction
    Either-Or
    A is A

    These are the standards of reason that Rand advocates - the epistemology of Objectivism is reason. Your question seems an ethical one. To save one or ten? You'd need to give a scenario to have any coherent answer. Objectivist ethics are rational self-interest.
    Yes, perhaps I'm not explaining myself clearly enough. Ok, what are possible ways you could apply 'rational self interest' in a situation like that?
 
 
 
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