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    (Original post by cucumber sandwich)
    yes
    prejudiced? no
    racism is prejudice, by definition.
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    (Original post by lush_lady)
    so if we stop people moving out of Britain then we won't need all the immigrants coming in and then people can stop complaining about it!!!!!!
    immigration far exceeds emigration already
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    racism is prejudice, by definition.
    yeah, but prejudice is not racism
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    Well Racism can be seen to be an opinion, and each is entitled to that. However the line between expressing your opinion and actually abusing is a fine one, and is crossed without knowledge. If you do agree with the BNP (which i certainly don't) as long as you don't want to forcefully or discriminate non-whites, then i suppose you can't be racist.
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    (Original post by cucumber sandwich)
    yeah, but prejudice is not racism
    yeh that is true, prejudice can be about anything sex, race, class etc.
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    (Original post by wellisntitfor)
    Surely in formal debate the very first step is to define terms, or else the whole exercise is utterly futile. We've seen as many different understandings of "racism" in this thread as there are replies.
    The definition of racism should have been dealt with at the start, or should at least be mentioned briefly at the start of someone's post. Us all simply saying "yes", "no" and "YOU ******* SCUMBAG!" gets us nowhere. We're all talking about different things. And, sadly, 99% of us don't really recognise that as important.
    If you look on TSR many, if not most debates, exist solely because people fail to agree what they're even talking about. For example, all the "do you like skinny girls" or "are musclez good?" kind of thread. What the **** is skinny, how muscley is muscley? It's all just ********.

    You included your own definition of racism - one that is reasonable (like many others) but not the same as many other people's. It also unforutunately used another ambiguous term - "discriminate". Quite what that means, I don't really know.

    By the first part of the definition - feeling superior to other races - I am not a racist. However, I do believe in general inherent differences between races, accross a range of things. That makes me a racist by other people's view. Or, I also am happy to use words like "gook" and "******". I've been told that uttering those words is what makes a person racist.
    As has been mentioned, "racism" truly is one of the most poorly defined concepts around today. Indeed it's probably the most differently-understood "issue of today". Everyone knows it's "bad".... but what actually is it?
    omg I don't know, but it's definitely bad.

    This is fair; perhaps I wasn't clear. I accept the need to define terms, and it is important to be clear exactly what is being discussed. Sometimes, therefore, there will need to be debates about semantics, for example if I were to be fine with different races, but not fine with people of different nationalities, then I might want to make this clear when putting forward my view. Or I might just be prejudiced, but never actually act on those prejudices, and therefore not discriminate, in which case I might want to highlight that distinction.

    My point, therefore, is not that defining terms is unhelpful per se, but rather that in some instances on this thread it has been used as a way of sidestepping the real issue. Discussing different definitions of racism is only important here insofar as it informs our moral judgement. Yet whether racism means skin colour, country of birth, where your parents came from does not affect the moral question. If I hold 'racism' be wrong, I will hold it to be wrong if it means any of these things, because that moral judgement is based on a principle that applies to all these different interpretations of what the word means.

    As I say there are legitimate definitional debates here, but many of them in this thread have not helped to answer the question 'Is racism wrong?' and I would argue have therefore distracted from the issue at hand.
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    Maybe.
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    No, it is rather stupid, however. People are perfectly entitled to be stupid, in fact they just can't help it.

    People who put any kind of 'genetic traits' such as bravery, industriousness, etc down to their race usually don't even posess those characteristics, and usually have no stand-alone merits about their person whatsoever, so aim to take merit for acheivements they have no part in whatsoever, even though they have absolutely no link socially or genetically to any good deeds that their ancestors may or may not have done.
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    (Original post by statics)
    This is fair; perhaps I wasn't clear. I accept the need to define terms, and it is important to be clear exactly what is being discussed. Sometimes, therefore, there will need to be debates about semantics, for example if I were to be fine with different races, but not fine with people of different nationalities, then I might want to make this clear when putting forward my view. Or I might just be prejudiced, but never actually act on those prejudices, and therefore not discriminate, in which case I might want to highlight that distinction.

    My point, therefore, is not that defining terms is unhelpful per se, but rather that in some instances on this thread it has been used as a way of sidestepping the real issue. Discussing different definitions of racism is only important here insofar as it informs our moral judgement. Yet whether racism means skin colour, country of birth, where your parents came from does not affect the moral question. If I hold 'racism' be wrong, I will hold it to be wrong if it means any of these things, because that moral judgement is based on a principle that applies to all these different interpretations of what the word means.

    As I say there are legitimate definitional debates here, but many of them in this thread have not helped to answer the question 'Is racism wrong?' and I would argue have therefore distracted from the issue at hand.
    Debating that side of things is, I agree, relatively insignificant. As you say, the end result is pretty much the same.

    It's the kind of thing you mentioned in your first paragraph that I think needs defining and standardising (i.e. what thoughts or actions really make a racist, rather than what technically makes a race)
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    I think this racism **** is pathetic, everybody should be allowed to think how they want and say what they want, and if your offended then stfu, quit being a baby and grow the **** up. I don´t give a **** if some black guy wants to make racist remarks about me, they´re just words and what have words ever done to anybody?

    I don´t agree with racial violence tho
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    (Original post by AntiMonarchist)
    I think this racism **** is pathetic, everybody should be allowed to think how they want and say what they want, and if your offended then stfu, quit being a baby and grow the **** up. I don´t give a **** if some black guy wants to make racist remarks about me, they´re just words and what have words ever done to anybody?

    I don´t agree with racial violence tho
    Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeed. Most of the time, it is just friendly banter...
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    No, it's not wrong to be racist. There's nothing wrong with being racist - just don't show it.
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    How have I missed this thread?

    The majority of the population is racist in one shape or another, but this is all swept under the carpet of Political Correctness... I think it is more of a case of people watching what they say these days so that they don't lose their job rather than not thinking it at all.
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    i think its wrong to judge someone by the colour of their skin rather than the content of their character- so on the whole i believe racism is wrong. However, in the UK it seems that ethnic minorities have greater opportunities in terms of employment eg fire service, where they discriminate against white people and encourage ethnic minorities to join- thats racism.
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    No, it's not wrong to be racist. There's nothing wrong with being racist - just don't show it.

    But surely your hidden prejudice would subconciously influence your daily doings in a way that might make those of a different race feel uncomfortable.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    But surely your hidden prejudice would subconciously influence your daily doings in a way that might make those of a different race feel uncomfortable.
    Quite possibly, but I'd imagine it's beyond your control as well. I mean, you can't just supress things like that - you can only not let it affect you, too much.
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    Quite possibly, but I'd imagine it's beyond your control as well. I mean, you can't just supress things like that - you can only not let it affect you, too much.

    Or maybe you could try to conquer your prejudice?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Or maybe you could try to conquer your prejudice?
    Maybe these people could try. It's never embedded or hardwired into their systems anyway.
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    (Original post by wellisntitfor)
    And what does discrimination mean in this case? Because that word can be utterly benign as well, I'm afraid.


    Can be, but in this context isn't
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    (Original post by Voluntas Mos Victum)
    No it isn't- the race of the people is neither her nor there- it is the British ethnicity which counts. You cannot be white and be ethnically British, but you also can't be ethnically British and be a white Spaniard.

    The race element is not the primary aim of such a policy by merely an unavoidable side effect.

    Why then does the BNP not allow Black British people (for instance) to join its party? Why can't they be 'ethnically' British if race isn't the issue?
 
 
 
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