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Do you believe that women truely have freedom/equality in this world? watch

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    (Original post by RachieJ)
    Being a woman pretty much sucks, no matter what culture you're in. Whether you're fat and ugly or thin and beautiful, muslim or non-muslim and no matter what we wear we're pretty much screwed. Most of us have freedom of choice but we can't ever be freed from the pressure and expectations of the male-orientated societies we will live in, whether that be to cover ourselves up for the sake of 'feminine modesty' or to retain a 'bikini body' at any cost.

    On the plus side we're doing better on the whole than all the women before us.

    agreed way to go (:
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    (Original post by Elementric)
    Are you? A few English parents would kill their children if they left home - the psychos. That doesn't mean the children don't have a choice.

    Again, you seem to think that a large proportion of Muslim men in the UK are murderers. Unbelievable.
    When did he say that? :indiff:

    And the Muslim men who threaten their female relatives with violence and/or death if they leave aren't always 'psychos'. Judging by stories of such murders in the last few years, they're respectable, educated members of society who serve the public in areas such as medicine, Law, teaching etc. This shows that it isn't their mental state that leads them to kill for the sake of honour, but rather the culture in which some British muslims believe to be acceptable but one which is quite blatantly oppressive towards women.
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    (Original post by the_neg_master_)
    Unfortunately, women in third world countries doesn't have the same status or recognition of women in developed countries. I have witnessed this as I lived for most of my life in a third world country. The reasons why women in these countries are oppressed are because of tradition and "social norm" of the country. For example, men have the upperhand in most underdeveloped countries but here in UK (or any other developing countries) women and men are equal (even sometimes women have the stronger voice in the family). I think these countries haven't developed and grown out of their unfair traditions and culture. However, we cannot tell these countries to change their way of living as most countries in the thirld world are religious and therefore sticks with their own tradition ways plus not letting western cilization influence their culture.
    no matter what country ur in u live by socail norm -in developed countries men and women are equal no way
    treated justly -mostly but equal is sooooooooooooo not true
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    (Original post by la fille danse)
    Errr.. so why aren't men required to wear head scarves? Surely they deserve to be judged on their inner beauty instead of their outer beauty, too?
    becoz there hair isnt a real ooh ahh feature like it is in women yet they must dress modestly :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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    Oh for **** sake.
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    (Original post by hiba alk)
    wear it or die??? wth how stupid how do u know its an issue of death ?
    do you know anyone who has died for removing there headscarf ... its an issue of personal choice that is mostly influenced by your community just like anything else
    dont jump to conclusions and be prejudice
    Yes; there have been stories of muslim girls and women who have been murdered because they have chosen to reject their culture. Be it stopping wearing the headscarf or asking for a divorce or having a boyfriend. So I wasn't just 'jumping to conclusions'.

    If they all truly chose to cover up and follow the 'rules' within their community, as some retards in this thread are suggesting, then there wouldn't be all these stories of honour killings, would there?
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    (Original post by hiba alk)
    becoz there hair isnt a real ooh ahh feature like it is in women yet they must dress modestly :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Don't be sexist. :indiff:

    Some men's hair is :coma:
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    (Original post by elsa_89)
    Yes; there have been stories of muslim girls and women who have been murdered because they have chosen to reject their culture. Be it stopping wearing the headscarf or asking for a divorce or having a boyfriend. So I wasn't just 'jumping to conclusions'.

    If they all truly chose to cover up and follow the 'rules' within their community, as some retards in this thread are suggesting, then there wouldn't be all these stories of honour killings, would there?
    some is not all
    some is not even 1% otherwise it wouldnt be on the news or watever would it ??

    ...if your actually intrested in the subject do ur research
    not all muslims practice correctly or follow there religion properly these things are not a norm
    it is something a muslim happened to do not becoz of there religion but becoz of their inccorect culture or phsyco way
    that is not approved of by religion

    are you discussing muslim belief or practice because in todays world they mean two very diffrent things...:woo: :eek3:
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    (Original post by hiba alk)
    wear it or die??? wth how stupid how do u know its an issue of death ?
    do you know anyone who has died for removing there headscarf ... its an issue of personal choice that is mostly influenced by your community just like anything else
    dont jump to conclusions and be prejudice
    people have been known to be killed for similar reasons, just not as extreme
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    (Original post by elsa_89)
    Don't be sexist. :indiff:

    Some men's hair is :coma:
    lool but im talking logic ... womens hair is mostly thought of as a real turn on factor
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    (Original post by pina.Love)
    Ok many people may not like my thoughts and opinions but i have come to this slight realisation..

    As we all know that muslim women wear headscarfs right? and some/most people in non muslim countries believe that muslim women are oppressed because they are covering up their bodies and hair but to me this is not the case.

    I think that muslim women to an extent have more freedom then non muslims because (wait for it..) when you think about it carefully us women all over the world are oppressed by beauty and what the media tells us of how we "should" look. A muslim woman wears the headscarf so that males can see her inner beauty without judging her outer beauty.

    We are constantly being told that certain celebrities are "too fat" or "too skinny" and what clothes we should be wearing, the latest cosmetic surgery, latest make-up and what is "in" or out. so to that extent women do not have freedom.

    Also we are constantly being objectified by men who call women hot or not. It just seems like in this world if you do not have that bikini body or if you cannot even fit into nice clothes then you are ostracised and if you do have a bikini body and make a small mistake on the looks department you are still ostracised...

    I know women can vote and have a freedom of speech, but it seems like the world is teaching females that you cannot get by in the world if you do not look good.

    So..Do you truely believe this is freedom? (oh and sorry for the long post)

    Discuss please

    This "debate" is completely ridiculous. Women are no more 'free' than men. Yes, women are under pressure to look attractive, so are men. It's the same as the rest of nature only scaled up.

    People make a judgement on someone in seconds. If they are wearing a head scarf or burka it doesn't mean their looks aren't being judged, it just means the judgement is 'not sexually attractive'. And also, who actually ostracizes people who don't have a 'bikini body'? I think you'll find its the other women who make the *****y comment, the men simply run by their instincts. If they have an unattractive body they have an unattractive body, it's not 'unfair', its' evolution.

    The idea of better looking women getting more promotions, well that's interesting because I'd theorize that less good looking people are more likely to develop an introverted personality and as a result spend more time practicing their 'craft' (whatever that may be). I can't find the statistics but I read that introverts are more intelligent and earn more than extroverts. Maybe more women are extroverts, who knows.

    These things I've mentioned barely scratch the surface, how can anyone say their gender is penalized? All I can say for certain is sex and gender are one small category and its foolish to look at things purely in those terms.

    Also, as people have mentioned, we are all subject to conditioning and 'freedom' is an illusion anyway.
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    (Original post by matt608)
    This "debate" is completely ridiculous. Women are no more 'free' than men. Yes, women are under pressure to look attractive, so are men. It's the same as the rest of nature only scaled up.

    People make a judgement on someone in seconds. If they are wearing a head scarf or burka it doesn't mean their looks aren't being judged, it just means the judgement is 'not sexually attractive'. And also, who actually ostracizes people who don't have a 'bikini body'? I think you'll find its the other women who make the *****y comment, the men simply run by their instincts. If they have an unattractive body they have an unattractive body, it's not 'unfair', its' evolution.

    The idea of better looking women getting more promotions, well that's interesting because I'd theorize that less good looking people are more likely to develop an introverted personality and as a result spend more time practicing their 'craft' (whatever that may be). I can't find the statistics but I read that introverts are more intelligent and earn more than extroverts. Maybe more women are extroverts, who knows.

    These things I've mentioned barely scratch the surface, how can anyone say their gender is penalized? All I can say for certain is sex and gender and one small category and its foolish to look at things purely in those terms.

    Also, as people have mentioned, we are all subject to conditioning and 'freedom' is an illusion anyway.
    /thread
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    (Original post by hiba alk)
    some is not all
    some is not even 1% otherwise it wouldnt be on the news or watever would it ??

    asking for divorce / having boyfriends ...if your actually intrested in the subject do ur research
    not all muslims practice correctly or follow there religion properly these things are not a norm it is something a muslim happened to do not becoz of there religion but becoz of their inccorect culture or phsyco way that is not approved of by religion

    are you discussing muslim belief of practice because in todays world they mean two very diffrent things...:woo: :eek3:
    So just because it is only 1% of muslims it makes it acceptable? Don't be absurd. A very low proportion of kids are molested, women raped, people murdered; do we ignore such cases in debates about safety/crime?!

    Also, did I mention anything about Islam the religion? No. I was talking about the culture which some muslims choose to live within. I don't care if that isn't what 'Islam intended' or whatever; the fact of the matter is that that is how Islam is being practised today. It may be wrong religiously, but as I have already mentioned, it is clearly seen as acceptable by muslims across the globe, including in this country. Now, do you expect me to believe that just because this culture is followed by people who are connected with the peaceful religion of Islam that it somehow must be acceptable and flawless?
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    (Original post by hiba alk)
    lool but im talking logic ... womens hair is mostly thought of as a real turn on factor
    Some women's hair might be a 'turn on', just like some men's. But not all women's; mine, for example, is horrific, at best. Is the fact that there are some women who are lucky enough to have lovely hair a reason to make all women cover up their hair? :indiff:
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    Some of you girls are waaaaaayyyyyyyy over-exaggurating the "pressure" to look good. Plenty of women don't really care about what they look like. Most put a little bit of effort in because they want to make a good impression, as most men do: its hardly a lack of freedom.

    I'd rather have a bit of "pressure" to look good (enforced by little except your own vanity) than a pressure to wear a hijab in some of the hottest countries in the world (often enforced by being kicked out your family)!
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    (Original post by elsa_89)
    So just because it is only 1% of muslims it makes it acceptable? Don't be absurd. A very low proportion of kids are molested, women raped, people murdered; do we ignore such cases in debates about safety/crime?!

    Also, did I mention anything about Islam the religion? No. I was talking about the culture which some muslims choose to live within. I don't care if that isn't what 'Islam intended' or whatever; the fact of the matter is that that is how Islam is being practised today. It may be wrong religiously, but as I have already mentioned, it is clearly seen as acceptable by muslims across the globe, including in this country. Now, do you expect me to believe that just because this culture is followed by people who are connected with the peaceful religion of Islam that it somehow must be acceptable and flawless?

    ive come across wrong / u miss understood me .. it is in no way acceptable and everyone has the personal choice of doing what they see as best

    as for the global muslim take on it .... im not aware of anyone who sees it as ok
    and no ...culture is definatly not flawless especially when it contradicts religion

    :cool: :p: :yep:
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    as for me being absurd ....
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    (Original post by tom//)
    by choice you mean they will get punished if they dont wear it? riggghhhttt
    It doesnt say in ISLAM anywear that women are must wear a burka. So its their choice, instantly. Women wear a scarf they dont need to wear a burka similarly men grow a beard.
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    There are plenty of hijab wearing Muslim women who still plaster on make up and care about body image. Even the more religious Muslim women may still put effort into buying Abayas and hijabs with nice designs. It is perfectly normal for a woman to want to be what their culture and society defines as beautiful.
 
 
 
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