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    (Original post by eulerwaswrong)
    can i just ask what is the purpose of the tomkins table (from a student point of view) ?

    I can understand that colleges will like to compare themselves to others - but from a student perspective a degree from girton is the same as a degree from trinity. The only differences are tutorials etc and do these really differ that greatly - if you are good enough to get a first from cambridge then you will get a first in any college surely?

    Please correct me if im wrong
    You're pretty much right. What the Tompkins table does, however, is provide the senior tutors and deans of colleges with an excuse to ban fun and to bully next years freshers.

    The deans of Sidney, Clare and Christ's are probably foaming at the mouth in puritanical fervour as we speak.
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    (Original post by Chewwy)
    as a woman, i find this incredibly insulting.
    :erm: What exactly about it do you find so insulting?
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    (Original post by Arrogant Git)
    So that's why Caius M2 went down so many places this term? And I thought it was just because they couldn't really row very well.
    we didn't go down that many places.
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    (Original post by Arrogant Git)
    You're pretty much right. What the Tompkins table does, however, is provide the senior tutors and deans of colleges with an excuse to ban fun and to bully next years freshers.

    The deans of Sidney, Clare and Christ's are probably foaming at the mouth in puritanical fervour as we speak.
    yeah totally next year may well be a sorry, glum and underboozed affair if our worst fears are realised
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    (Original post by eulerwaswrong)
    The only differences are tutorials etc and do these really differ that greatly - if you are good enough to get a first from cambridge then you will get a first in any college surely?
    I have been supervised all year with people from all sorts of other colleges so for IA music (at least this was my experience of it) it really makes no difference whatsoever.

    That said there seems to have been an unusually large discrepancy in results between colleges for music this year; I can't see any practical reason for it at all though, since the way we're taught is exactly the same across the board.

    Tagging on to what Arrogant Git has said, I would be interested to know how the table is actually calculated. I can't remember who, but someone told me that as a female muso you're statistically the second least likely candidate across the university to get a first (who the least likely is I don't know), and while I'm not sure if that's true and certainly have no idea if it's the case for other subjects, it would be interesting to know if a lower proportion of firsts is what tends to shunt the women's colleges down the table a bit.

    ...and this said, much as I love Fitz, if I graduate with a decent degree I don't really give a toss about where they are on the table because I am ESSENTIALLY SELFISH and their position on the Tompkins will not secure me a job.
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    I don't know how greatly it differs between colleges, but the quality of supervisions does differ from supervisor to supervisor. (And, for mathematics, if you're at Trinity, you have a better chance of being supervised by your lecturer than if you were at another college. This, however, is not necessarily a good thing...)
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    (Original post by Arrogant Git)
    You're pretty much right. What the Tompkins table does, however, is provide the senior tutors and deans of colleges with an excuse to ban fun and to bully next years freshers.
    Is there genuinely centralised pressure from some colleges, then, outside of what a DoS might choose to place on you? Who does it come from? :confused:
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    (Original post by Satine)
    Is there genuinely centralised pressure from some colleges, then, outside of what a DoS might choose to place on you? Who does it come from? :confused:
    In our case, the Senior Tutor.
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    (Original post by ukebert)
    In our case, the Senior Tutor.
    Oh yes. I forget they exist. Ours started talking to me in the Fitz cafe once and I did not know who he was at the time but he seemed to know everything about me, it was very unnerving.

    Do you actually meet with yours individually, then?
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    (Original post by KAISER_MOLE)
    Ooo, John's making a minor comeback. Will be interesting to see how the larger changes in the Tompkins table effect college council decision making (John's drop down gave us the wine ban in hall and academic room ballot+petrifying first speech to freshers back in Michaelmas, basically "Get a first or DEATH!")
    Hahah, yeh the same thing happened at Peterhouse. They did all the major changes in my first year. We had the second and third years anxiously trying to reassure us that Peterhouse was nothing like that before we got here, and not to stress too much.
    Unfortunately the tactic worked, seeing as we jumped up by seven places after that year, and by two this year. So they're unlikely to soften their hardline approach anytime soon :rolleyes:

    But yeh... I mean they cancelled the May Ball in my first year. This year they suddenly started closing the bar early in exam term :rolleyes: The Senior Tutor's speech at matriculation was basically: "A 2.2 is no good in today's society. If you get a 2.2 you will be a disgrace to your college, a disgrace to your University, a disgrace to your families and you will never be employed! :hmmm:'
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    (Original post by eulerwaswrong)
    ...from a student perspective a degree from girton is the same as a degree from trinity. The only differences are tutorials etc and do these really differ that greatly - if you are good enough to get a first from cambridge then you will get a first in any college surely?
    Yes this is correct in my opinion. After all the firsts are awarded by departments who do the marking, not colleges, so a scholar will be capable of a first wherever they go. Nonetheless I think the social factors of a college can be significant. If your subject group in your own college are achieving firsts then you will feel under pressure to try as hard as you can. Similarly if several people you know get 2.2s with seemingly no repercussions then you may take a more relaxed attitude to your studies. And perhaps good teaching at some colleges or great resources and support for subjects like architecture might help in a subtle way.
    Supervisions do vary, but I don't see this as very relevant. For instance my college has no Fellows in my subject, and my Director of Studies and supervisors are all external. Moreover my department has staffing issues and I had a 50/50 split, more or less, between being supervised by PhD students and doctors or Fellows. Nevertheless I achieved a first this year and I didn't really feel in anyway disadvantaged by my situation.

    So in short I don't think it actually matters much to students apart from on a superficial/gossipy/inquisitive level. I think it has probably come to matter to colleges simply because applicants devote inordinate attention to the tables when considering their choices. Additionally if one college gets more firsts than another it simply will be viewed as 'better' no matter how sketchy the measure really is, and psychologically that just matters to people. This obviously affects students when colleges implement measures to encourage/demand better performance.

    (Original post by BJack)
    :erm: What exactly about it do you find so insulting?
    Its a he - so nothing.
    (Original post by Arrogant Git)
    The deans of Sidney, Clare and Christ's are probably foaming at the mouth in puritanical fervour as we speak.
    :rofl:
    (Original post by Turdburger)
    I thought Christs were meant to be workaholics. But what do I know, im just a lowly Oxonian.
    I don't think Scipio90 will much mind if I say that the only Christ's student I know definitely isn't a workaholic

    Actually I made a similar mistake when I went down to Oxford recently. I had a look around Merton (our sister college) and mentioned the college's academic reputation to one of the Porters. He snorted and insisted that the students all doss about until a few weeks before their exams :p:
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    (Original post by Satine)
    Oh yes. I forget they exist. Ours started talking to me in the Fitz cafe once and I did not know who he was at the time but he seemed to know everything about me, it was very unnerving.

    Do you actually meet with yours individually, then?
    Well he ranted at us at the beginning of the year. And he's my tutor, so I see him every term. Plus if we don't get a 2:1 we have to see him again... looking forward to that :p:
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    I wonder if having a higher number of affiliated students (which mature colleges seem to do) makes a difference. I am going to be an affiliated student reading History this year at St. Edmund's. As an affiliated, I only do Part II of the tripos, which essentially means that everyone else who is taking the same papers as I am will already have had two years at Cambridge (and presumably become more familiar with Cambridge exam-writing, essays, etc).

    Related question for those at Cambridge now: Are there many / any affiliated students in your subject?
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    (Original post by Nebuduck)
    'My college is better than yours', basically. Exactly the same purpose as the Bumps table.
    well surely if you both got firsts - but one person gets it from a college ranked first, the other gets it from a college ranked last - surely the better student is the one from the worse college?
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    (Original post by The West Wing)
    Tompkins Score, % Firsts
    1 (3) Trinity 68.83% 33.40%
    2 (2) Emmanuel 66.99% 26.20%
    3 (1) Selwyn 66.91% 26.80%
    4 (4) Gonville & Caius 66.85% 26.30%
    5 (11) St. Catharine's 66.58% 27.10%
    6 (10) Pembroke 66.00% 28.10%
    7 (6) Churchill 65.48% 25.40%
    8 (5) Magdalene 65.35% 23.30%
    9 (15) Trinity Hall 65.03% 22.90%
    10 (9) Corpus Christi 64.88% 22.00%
    11 (7) Jesus 64.81% 21.50%
    12 (16) Queens' 64.08% 23.10%
    13 (8) Christ's 63.88% 23.20%
    14 (20) St. John's 63.51% 21.20%
    15 (12) Downing 63.44% 19.70%
    16 (17) Peterhouse 62.99% 23.60%
    17 (19) King's 62.24% 20.20%
    18 (13) Clare 62.18% 19.70%
    19 (18) Robinson 62.16% 20.10%
    20 (22) Girton 61.80% 17.30%
    21 (21) Fitzwilliam 61.23% 18.30%
    22 (14) Sidney Sussex 60.75% 14.40%
    23 (23) New Hall 60.30% 15.70%
    24 (24) Newnham 58.98% 12.20%
    25 (25) Homerton 58.25% 13.10%
    26 (26) Hughes Hall 56.30% 16.70%
    27 (27) Wolfson 55.03% 7.90%
    28 (29) St Edmund's 52.96% 9.40%
    29 (28) Lucy Cavendish 52.90% 6.70%


    Clare - embarassing!!!!! To be fair our Natscis did absolutely terribly by any standard, and they form the largest subject group.
    :rofl2: my friend started in natscis at clare this year :moon:
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    I don't think Scipio90 will much mind if I say that the only Christ's student I know definitely isn't a workaholic
    Wuh?
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)

    This year they suddenly started closing the bar early in exam term :rolleyes:
    Shutting the bar in exam term or closing it early seems particularly stupid. It's not going to stop people drinking who want to and I find the bar particularly useful in exam term. Shutting it earlier is silly because surely that's just encouraging students to stop revising/leave the library earlier.
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    I don't think Scipio90 will much mind if I say that the only Christ's student I know definitely isn't a workaholic
    *chokes and splutters coffee everywhere with a :eek: face*
    • PS Helper
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    PS Helper
    (Original post by Arrogant Git)
    Stuff that you've said
    I'm not great with statistics - what you're saying is that generally, men do either really well or really badly with not much in the middle, and women are more likely to do consistently fairly well? And the formula used to calculate the table is based on the former? In that case, that's rather unfair, but interesting.
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    (Original post by KAISER_MOLE)
    Ooo, John's making a minor comeback. Will be interesting to see how the larger changes in the Tompkins table effect college council decision making (John's drop down gave us the wine ban in hall and academic room ballot+petrifying first speech to freshers back in Michaelmas, basically "Get a first or DEATH!")
    hey, I'm going to be a fresher at Johns starting this October and felt a sense of forboding reading your post

    Just to ask, do people actually take that speech seriously? I mean, will there be enough people there like me who just want a good job at the end, and would rather get 2.1s and have a good time (maybe try for a 1st in the 3rd year) rather than work ridiculously hard to maybe get a 1st in every year?

    also what is an academic room ballot?
 
 
 
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