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Is Labour's fate sealed, or do they have a good chance in the General Election? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Do Labour have a chance?
    It would take a miracle. The Conservatives are practically guaranteed to win.
    71
    75.53%
    They are on equal footing. It's a possibility that they could win, it could go either way.
    20
    21.28%
    Labour will definitely win the next General Election.
    3
    3.19%

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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    Jeremy Clarkson who is a conservative :p: .

    The tory government are at least relativley popular at least )
    I'm sure most conservatives wouldn't agree with Clarksonite views :p: Far too... RW :p:

    Popular, yes, I agree - but not popular for the policies. Politics today isn't about policies. The vast majority of everyday voters don't know and don't care about the policies of the party which they are voting for.

    Plus, the sickening gang-like mentality developing within politics today is an utter disgrace to the political structure and organised democracy of this country. PR would merely increase this.
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    (Original post by nasri-diaby)
    So you genuinely think Cameron will deal with the recession than Brown??????:eek:
    You mean better than Brown? I wouldn't trust Brown to effectively clean my windows, let alone a recession. The alternative doesn't look great either tbh.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    IMF = International Monetary (or something like that) Fund.

    You might be right with long term economic benefits. However...

    Basically we are really really shafted with debt at the moment, and we need to make reducing debt now. Our currency is already horribly devalued as other countries see what a state we are in. Id increase taxes temporarily and decrease public spending.
    Have you ever done economics before? im assuming you havent, the heavy borrowing has been made to ensure our economy doesn't slide even more.

    Currency is not that big a problem as it is on a floating exchange rate and will increase. The tories in the past have made an absolute mess of it (black wednesday) when meddling with the currency to fulfil macro-economic objectives. Other countries have problems as well.

    You do know that increasing taxes for everyone and everything will only reduce demand and we will not be able to get out of recession?

    God help us if what you're saying is official tory policy!
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    Have you ever done economics before? im assuming you havent, the heavy borrowing has been made to ensure our economy doesn't slide even more.

    Currency is not that big a problem as it is on a floating exchange rate and will increase. The tories in the past have made an absolute mess of it (black wednesday) when meddling with the currency to fulfil macro-economic objectives. Other countries have problems as well.

    You do know that increasing taxes for everyone and everything will only reduce demand and we will not be able to get out of recession?

    God help us if what you're saying is official tory policy!
    Indeed, "conservative" economics may have been conventional in Keynes' time, but as MacDonald's policies demonstrated - they just don't work. You just end up digging yourself a bigger hole.
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    Labour will get a decent turnout - people, whose votes have not been needed at the last two elections will turn out and vote when there is a percieved threat of Labour meltdown in the chattering classes.
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    I think they're as good as gone.. its time for a change I say!
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    (Original post by nasri-diaby)
    So you genuinely think Cameron will deal with the recession than Brown??????:eek:
    How can he do worse?
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    I don't think Labour are dead at all. Sure everyone hates them right now and I do believe they'll lose the next general election, but they certainly won't vanish. In 10-12 years they'll be voted in again and so the cycle continues.
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    Have you ever done economics before? im assuming you havent, the heavy borrowing has been made to ensure our economy doesn't slide even more.

    Currency is not that big a problem as it is on a floating exchange rate and will increase. The tories in the past have made an absolute mess of it (black wednesday) when meddling with the currency to fulfil macro-economic objectives. Other countries have problems as well.

    You do know that increasing taxes for everyone and everything will only reduce demand and we will not be able to get out of recession?

    God help us if what you're saying is official tory policy!
    Yes. Although im not a economist. I meant for the tax rises to occur after recovery was set in. -- Not clear at all though I apologise

    Im not agaisnt increased borrowing in a recession. Its obviously neccessary. Its the scale that is the worrying aspect. As well as the national debt increasing, excessive borrowing causing an increase in intrest rates isnt exactly great when you are in a recession is it? We are on course to be the next 1990s Japan IMO.

    The next bolded bit is just patronising.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    IMF = International Monetary (or something like that) Fund.

    You might be right with long term economic benefits. However...

    Basically we are really really shafted with debt at the moment, and we need to make reducing debt now. Our currency is already horribly devalued as other countries see what a state we are in. Id increase taxes temporarily and decrease public spending.
    That would be disastrous for the economy.

    On the thread title, I think unfortunately Labours fate is sealed. A lot of people don't really understand politics, and are swayed by the media without really knowing what each party's objectives and views are. The fact that the BNP received 6.26% of the vote for the European elections is testament to this.

    Anyway depending on when it is held, I might be able to vote in the next general election! :woo:
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    Yes.

    Im not agaisnt increased borrowing in a recession. Its obviously neccessary. Its the scale that is the worrying aspect. As well as the national debt increasing, excessive borrowing causing an increase in intrest rates isnt exactly great when you are in a recession is it? We are on course to be the next 1990s Japan IMO.

    The next bolded bit is just patronising.
    It has to be a big stimulas to the economy otherwise there is no point in injecting a few borrowed billion in the economy if the economy needs a lot more. It is a problem but what are the alternatives that will be beneficial to the economy?

    And IMO its only without taking action like increasing spending where we will end up like japan.

    Patronising maybe but it makes sense, seriously how would cutting spending and increasing taxes help in a recession? Who or what would increase AD?
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    It has to be a big stimulas to the economy otherwise there is no point in injecting a few borrowed billion in the economy if the economy needs a lot more. It is a problem but what are the alternatives that will be beneficial to the economy?

    And IMO its only without taking action like increasing spending where we will end up like japan.

    Patronising maybe but it makes sense, seriously how would cutting spending and increasing taxes help in a recession? Who or what would increase AD?
    Sorry I added an edit before you replied about when I would increase taxation. I disagree about the Japan bit though, Japans problems were caused by spending too much rather than than too little. There is a balance to be struck and IMO we are not at the balance point atm.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    Sorry I added an edit before you replied about when I would increase taxation. I disagree about the Japan bit though, Japans problems were caused by spending too much rather than than too little. There is a balance to be struck and IMO we are not at the balance point atm.
    Fair enough, tbh there would be problems if spending didnt fall and taxes didnt rise (a bit) after the economy was in a stable position.

    Japan now has a problem of very little spending hence the constant deflation, although its not been as bad as everyone makes out.

    In extreme circumstances like these, it wouldn't be wise to say there is a balance. I'm glad labour is at power sorting out the economics crisis rather than the tories.
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    (Original post by Allthewayhome)
    People who use /thread really tick me off.
    It just strikes me as so arrogant - like no other opinion matters.

    /truth
    sorry :sad:
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    IMO given the recent local election results its pretty hard to agree with your statement.
    I'd say that Labour still has ample time to drag people back.

    They can still present themselves as the "Least Awful" candidates worth a damn- a great many people will stick with them through thick and thin, despite this administration's apparent self-destruction.

    If they were to ditch Brown along with announcing a fresh set of policies, they'd have a shot at a boost in the polls- they could feasibly position themselves as "New New Labour", so to speak. They could even pull something similar off with Brown at the helm, if they manage to score a decent PR coup.
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    (Original post by Turdburger)
    IMF = International Monetary (or something like that) Fund.

    You might be right with long term economic benefits. However...

    Basically we are really really shafted with debt at the moment, and we need to make reducing debt now. Our currency is already horribly devalued as other countries see what a state we are in. Id increase taxes temporarily and decrease public spending.
    Lol, thus resulting in an economic collapse akin to the Great Depression (and possibly worse because of the preceding financial conditions).

    No economist would seriously suggest a contractionary fiscal policy during a recession.
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    sad to see an honest and realistic guy as Gordon Brown lose the election to some nothing-but-talk Cameron. Gordon talks about what is possible and not imaginable. It is just the changing world context pushing the electrote to vote for the likes of Sarkozy, MERKEL and now possibly Cameron. They are not true leaders but some cowards who can't defy the real masters ruling the world.
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    (Original post by shirley7)
    I reckon it's 80:20 in the Conservatives favour. I'm not particularly happy about that because I still think the Conservatives are there for the wealthy middle class. I just hope Cameron proves me wrong, and thinking about it they really are the only realistic alternative. Eventhough I agree with alot of what the Lib Dem's stand for, I don't think they're big enough to run the country.
    but labour have done so much for the middle class!? so much of their policies benefit the middle class (hence why we have sink schools and hospitals and the postcode lottery- only the middle class afford to travel to send their children to better schools)... or even tax credits for couples earning up to £60000?

    as for the thread, why couldn't labour win? the recession is looking to end soon (ish) and if its in time then economic growth will occur by the election- allowing the electorate to assume its thanks to labour's economic policies. if brown had stood down then it would have caused more problems- a new leader would not be able to recover and by the time of the next GE another leader would have to be found... believe it or not brown does hold a fair bit of respect within the core of the party. if you look at the eu results (which aren't typically representative of GE results) labour didn't actually do that badly and the majority of their core voters didn't turn out (hence the success of the BNP). so yeah i recks with a bit of luck admittedly labour could win next election.. or a hung parliament. i dont think cameron is actually popular enough...
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    I suspect that none of you actually remember what life was like under the Tories. Indeed the financial problems we are now facing have their roots in the 'reforms' of the 80's, under the Tories here, and Republicans in the US.


    The Conservatives are looking to repeat the very same mistakes that they made when in power during the last big recession. Cutting public spending during a recession does nothing more than prolong that recession and deepen it, thereby also reducing the tax returns which would otherwise be used to pay back some of the national debt.



    IoW, the Conservatives are just about the worst party possible to bring in to run the country during a recession. You only have to look at both their proposed policies for dealing with it, combined with what has happened in similar situations in the past when those policies have been implimented to see what a bad idea it is...


    And of coruse they're a bunch of self-serving *****, but that's pretty much a given anyway...
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    I think conservatives will probably win the next one, however I don't think labour are 100% out of it. Anything could happen, however I think people generally don't like Gordon Brown, and I think they've lost a lot of people's trust. Also, people get fed up, even if they had done nothing wrong people still like change, they still like having a fresh start every now and then, so I think this puts Conservatives in a better position already really.
 
 
 
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