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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    15. We should elect our public services representatives locally. Britain is too heavily populated to manage centrally, so things need to be micro-managed. If the head of the police is no good at their job then you should be able to vote for a new one. This would increase the power of the people to tackle unsatisfactory services and would mean that jobs are done with the welfare of the community in mind rather than central government targets. It would certainly make councils sit up and do their jobs properly.
    I agree with most of what you say, but no. Never.
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    I agree with most of what you say, but no. Never.
    Why not? This one was copied and pasted from some online article, but I see the logic in it.
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    The only way you can make Britain Great again is to take over a quarter of the world and reinstate the british empire.
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    Why not? This one was copied and pasted from some online article, but I see the logic in it.
    I'm fond of increasing centralisation myself, decentralised systems tend to have issues with information sharing, overall efficiency and control, don't forget corruption. Personally, I'm fond of the idea of officially federalising Britain into it's component states (directly contradicts what I just said, but this is as far as heavy decentralisation should go).
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    to some extent.





    Harsh sentencing =/= a deterrent.
    But I agree about asbos


    Colonies = Imperialism. End of. It was tyrannical of us. It was rugged chauvanism.


    You don't elect the PM. If you have an issue with Brown, join the Labour party or vote for someone else next time.


    As much as I hate them, banning them gives them publicity and creates a vacuum for more extreme viewpoints to be taken. And feedom of speech?


    Sure, why not. So long as it serves as a good example rather than just alienating the youth.


    Sentencing must be proportional across the board. But yeah, underage purchase of such items should be monitored more closely.


    Pluralistic society. Gonna be different values, gotta get over it if you want a democracy. By all means reinforce positive roll-models, but what you're suggesting is indoctrination.


    Better.


    Don't like compulsory. Encouraging schools to partake in such activities is great though.


    Not really thought about this point. But I do think EMA is unfair to some.


    Sorry. I'm a progressive tax advocate. Won't be able to change that.

    Just my two cents.

    May I ask what you mean by 'great'? As in a world leader? Because, lets be honest, it's not going to happen.
    Pretty much agree with you! :yy:

    And where are the last 5 'ways to make GB great again'? :confused:
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    Why not? This one was copied and pasted from some online article, but I see the logic in it.
    Because if you elect the heads of social services, you will get extremely popular, incoherent sets of policies which aren't based on the right decision, but simply the most popular.

    No thanks.
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    Yeah most of them sound quite good. Have we found a replacement for Gordon?
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)

    9. Develop a set of values of how a British man and British woman should behave by, regardless of race, sexual orientation, financial background or other discriminating factors. Make these known to everyone from a young age, through schools, pubic campaigns etc.
    .
    Oh, hi Islamic Republic of Iran. Shall we have moral police to enforce it?

    (also, tee hee, pubic)
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    ye to 1, 2, 3,7, 10, 11, They are excellent ideas

    4 - eeerrrm , ok ,but you'd also have to acknowledge the bad aspects, and is it worth dragging these painful facts to the worlds eye -
    i, we denied real democracy to 1/4 of the world
    ii, we actively fought against the most idealistic and just nation of the time (or ever) in suppresing the USA
    iii, we invented the concentration camp
    iv, we created the north atlantic slave trade
    v. we created the volatile israel/palestine situation

    5. No, thats not how it works. We have an unelected head of state ( queen) and rely on the legeslature to provide the exectutive ( and head of govt. ie. Brown) . The result is the most stable and moderate democracy ever.

    6. I hate red-tops, but I hate 'clever' red-tops ( Daily Mail ) even more. I think all media corporations should be made to reddress the balance of entertainment, education and information in their TV operations, but censorship in most cases is not good.

    8. Yes to a massive crackdown on knives. Not the others so much.

    9. I dont really understand this sorry.

    12. No, I agree that the EMA system is very lax and throws money at some who really don't need it, but it is a very admirable and in my experience successful way of inducing people to stay in education.


    13. NO. Whatever Britain is, I dont think it is a collection of individuals who happen to live in proximity to each other but nothing more. We are a society, and the rich should be taxed much more, because even with a high tax rate, their income will be well above the base rate of a decent standard of living. Concern for others is not communism, its civilised.

    14. I wasn't aware that they couldnt?

    15. NO. An office like police commissioner needs to be by appointment to ensure a competant head who represents the interest of the force.
    If your idea of a publically elected comissioner went through, Jamie Oliver could turn up and say
    'Yeah I got mugged before and I dont want it to happen again.' An could thus be elected by a public who is impressed with him against a force which is bewildered.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    Oh, hi Islamic Republic of Iran. Shall we have moral police to enforce it?

    (also, tee hee, pubic)
    Teehee pubic indeed, but it says excluding quite a lot of things so I don't think it should be that bad. We're already force-fed a set of morals at schools anyway.
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    This seems like soft fascism to me. Also, you're missing the last five ways to make Britain great.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Teehee pubic indeed, but it says excluding quite a lot of things so I don't think it should be that bad. We're already force-fed a set of morals at schools anyway.
    I don't really care what it excludes, it's what it includes that would bother me. How can we tell people how they should legally behave? If I'm not breaking the law, the government or authorities have no right to say how I should and shouldn't behave.

    Any set of values which parliament would ever be able to all agree on would have to be so vague that they would be dangerous - who is to say that rule number of our moral code "1. let's all be nice to each other", isn't being broken by someone protesting, for example? The idea of public campaigns telling me how I should be behaving makes me feel sick to my stomach. I'd say that'd be the point I'd really want to leave the country, but in this utopian world that's being described, I'm in danger of having some sort of smear campaign run on me for acting unpatriotic abroad.

    what possible sorts of values could we choose to enforce on a group of people, whilst remaining moral, pluralist and democratic? I'd love to hear some suggestions.

    Maintaining standards of behaviour in a school of minors is absolutely different to the government telling grown adults how to behave all the time in their private lives. Completely different.
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    “Greatness in individuals is rare; in countries it is almost unique. And Great Britain was great. It used to be said that ‘The sun never sets on the British empire.’ That is how vast Britain’s influence was. And that influence, on balance, was far more positive than negative.”

    In the light of all the threads about countries/things better than the UK/Britain today, I started reading some articles and made a list. Here is my unfinished list, you can add to it if you want, or say whether you agree or disagree with my points.

    1. Encourage Invention and Entrepreneurialism.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    The British have been an incredibly inventive people over the centuries so how about encouraging individuals to invent and to start companies just at this moment when there are 2 or 3 million unemployed twiddling their fingers? Imagine what could be invented in the proverbial garden shed by people with ideas and time on their hands.
    I suggest that the Government allow anyone who sets up a company one year free of tax to help the unemployment situation along.
    Yes, this would mean that the government would forgo a bit of tax, but they wouldn't be paying unemployment benefit -- win some, lose some. It would mean that an inventor would be very careful before setting up a business as he could only do it once, tax free.
    2. Take the lead and Legalize drugs.

    There are many good arguments for this on the internet, here is a decent one:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=772493

    3. Make criminals fear the law (and get rid of ASBOs for god’s sake).

    4. Embrace positive aspects of British history.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    1. “The British colonies learned about individual rights, parliamentary government, civil service and courts of justice, to name of few of the benefits that the British brought with them. Were it not for British involvement, India might still have sati (burning wives on the funeral pyre of their husband), would have no unifying language, and probably no parliamentary democracy or other institutions and values that have made that country a democratic giant, now on its way to becoming an economic one as well.”

    2. A self-important college freshman walking along the beach took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen resting on the steps why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation. "You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one" the student said loud enough for others to hear. "The young people of today grew up with television, jet engines, space travel, man walking on the moon. We have nuclear energy, ships and cell phones, computers with light speed ... and many more."

    After a brief silence, the senior citizen responded as follows.

    "You're right son. We didn't have those things when we were young ... so we invented them. Now, you aggrogant little sh*t what are you doing for the next generation?"

    5. Get rid of Gordon Brown and elect a Prime-Minister with balls, who can show some dignity and pride in his day-to-day life and handle the media correctly.

    6. Most people won’t agree with this, but I don’t care. Ban Red Top tabloids, reality TV and celebrity magazines.

    7. Condemn the behaviour of Brits abroad. Disgrace it in the media by making an example of those who do not represent the country well.

    8. Strict, over-the-top punishments for anyone caught selling alcohol, cigarettes or knives to those without ID.

    9. Develop a set of values of how a British man and British woman should behave by, regardless of race, sexual orientation, financial background or other discriminating factors. Make these known to everyone from a young age, through schools, pubic campaigns etc.

    10. Use the media to make the public more aware of positive actions by good people, to help create more positive role models.

    11. Compulsory environmental or charity projects for young people in schools.

    12. Scrap EMA and replace it with a voucher/receipt system (I'm on £30 a week + massive bonuses, I only really need £10 max without bonuses, and if I want to treat myself I should use my own money). If people need it for transport give them a special oyster card. If they need it for lunch, don't we have a dinner ticket system in place? Make young people work for money.

    13. Be more conservative with taxpayer's money, and in turn tax the rich less. It just annoys me how much money we throw around, especially when some people are being taxed 40% of their salary over a certain amount.

    14. Allow parents to take photographs of school plays and sport's days. Or videos of their children's football matches. Not doing so creates an atmosphere of mistrust.

    15. We should elect our public services representatives locally. Britain is too heavily populated to manage centrally, so things need to be micro-managed. If the head of the police is no good at their job then you should be able to vote for a new one. This would increase the power of the people to tackle unsatisfactory services and would mean that jobs are done with the welfare of the community in mind rather than central government targets. It would certainly make councils sit up and do their jobs properly.
    I'm sorry but this all screams Daily Mail.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    I don't really care what it excludes, it's what it includes that would bother me. How can we tell people how they should legally behave? If I'm not breaking the law, the government or authorities have no right to say how I should and shouldn't behave.

    Any set of values which parliament would ever be able to all agree on would have to be so vague that they would be dangerous - who is to say that rule number of our moral code "1. let's all be nice to each other", isn't being broken by someone protesting, for example? The idea of public campaigns telling me how I should be behaving makes me feel sick to my stomach. I'd say that'd be the point I'd really want to leave the country, but in this utopian world that's being described, I'm in danger of having some sort of smear campaign run on me for acting unpatriotic abroad.

    what possible sorts of values could we choose to enforce on a group of people, whilst remaining moral, pluralist and democratic? I'd love to hear some suggestions.

    Maintaining standards of behaviour in a school of minors is absolutely different to the government telling grown adults how to behave all the time in their private lives. Completely different.
    I don't see a problem with just a general campaign promoting good behaviour, the first poster didn't suggest making it illegal, just making everyone aware.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    I don't see a problem with just a general campaign promoting good behaviour, the first poster didn't suggest making it illegal, just making everyone aware.
    What is "good behaviour"? Whose business is it to decide what's good and bad behaviour?
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    (Original post by arkadykris)
    that's rich coming from a guy who in another thread recently seemed to think that the skin colours white and black require capitalization.
    Lol!
    a) I wasn't the one who started pointing out the splinter in the eye of somebody else with a plank in my own eye
    b) I'm not a guy
    c) http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?...&search=search (note the bit I highlighted)

    –adjective 1. lacking hue and brightness; absorbing light without reflecting any of the rays composing it. 2. characterized by absence of light; enveloped in darkness: a black night. 3. (sometimes initial capital letter) a. pertaining or belonging to any of the various populations characterized by dark skin pigmentation, specifically the dark-skinned peoples of Africa, Oceania, and Australia. b. African-American
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    - Support your glorious leader Nick Griffin
    - Embrace the best bits of sharia law. Get women out of the workplace, covering up, no
    alcohol, flogging for pda/clothlessness etc
    - Get rid of Brown and nu labour. bunch of neo-liberal poofs
    - Get colonising again. India and Hong Kong are coming home. Lets give China a kick up the arse.
    - Aryan pride
    - Get rid of the welfare state/NHS
    - Abolish the health and safety executive
    - Build, make, design stuff. Show these colonial upstarts what we are made of.
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    “Greatness in individuals is rare; in countries it is almost unique. And Great Britain was great. It used to be said that ‘The sun never sets on the British empire.’ That is how vast Britain’s influence was. And that influence, on balance, was far more positive than negative.”

    In the light of all the threads about countries/things better than the UK/Britain today, I started reading some articles and made a list. Here is my unfinished list, you can add to it if you want, or say whether you agree or disagree with my points.

    1. Encourage Invention and Entrepreneurialism.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    The British have been an incredibly inventive people over the centuries so how about encouraging individuals to invent and to start companies just at this moment when there are 2 or 3 million unemployed twiddling their fingers? Imagine what could be invented in the proverbial garden shed by people with ideas and time on their hands.
    I suggest that the Government allow anyone who sets up a company one year free of tax to help the unemployment situation along.
    Yes, this would mean that the government would forgo a bit of tax, but they wouldn't be paying unemployment benefit -- win some, lose some. It would mean that an inventor would be very careful before setting up a business as he could only do it once, tax free.
    2. Take the lead and Legalize drugs.

    There are many good arguments for this on the internet, here is a decent one:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=772493

    3. Make criminals fear the law (and get rid of ASBOs for god’s sake).

    4. Embrace positive aspects of British history.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    1. “The British colonies learned about individual rights, parliamentary government, civil service and courts of justice, to name of few of the benefits that the British brought with them. Were it not for British involvement, India might still have sati (burning wives on the funeral pyre of their husband), would have no unifying language, and probably no parliamentary democracy or other institutions and values that have made that country a democratic giant, now on its way to becoming an economic one as well.”

    2. A self-important college freshman walking along the beach took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen resting on the steps why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation. "You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one" the student said loud enough for others to hear. "The young people of today grew up with television, jet engines, space travel, man walking on the moon. We have nuclear energy, ships and cell phones, computers with light speed ... and many more."

    After a brief silence, the senior citizen responded as follows.

    "You're right son. We didn't have those things when we were young ... so we invented them. Now, you aggrogant little sh*t what are you doing for the next generation?"

    5. Get rid of Gordon Brown and elect a Prime-Minister with balls, who can show some dignity and pride in his day-to-day life and handle the media correctly.

    6. Most people won’t agree with this, but I don’t care. Ban Red Top tabloids, reality TV and celebrity magazines.

    7. Condemn the behaviour of Brits abroad. Disgrace it in the media by making an example of those who do not represent the country well.

    8. Strict, over-the-top punishments for anyone caught selling alcohol, cigarettes or knives to those without ID.

    9. Develop a set of values of how a British man and British woman should behave by, regardless of race, sexual orientation, financial background or other discriminating factors. Make these known to everyone from a young age, through schools, pubic campaigns etc.

    10. Use the media to make the public more aware of positive actions by good people, to help create more positive role models.

    11. Compulsory environmental or charity projects for young people in schools.

    12. Scrap EMA and replace it with a voucher/receipt system (I'm on £30 a week + massive bonuses, I only really need £10 max without bonuses, and if I want to treat myself I should use my own money). If people need it for transport give them a special oyster card. If they need it for lunch, don't we have a dinner ticket system in place? Make young people work for money.

    13. Be more conservative with taxpayer's money, and in turn tax the rich less. It just annoys me how much money we throw around, especially when some people are being taxed 40% of their salary over a certain amount.

    14. Allow parents to take photographs of school plays and sport's days. Or videos of their children's football matches. Not doing so creates an atmosphere of mistrust.

    15. We should elect our public services representatives locally. Britain is too heavily populated to manage centrally, so things need to be micro-managed. If the head of the police is no good at their job then you should be able to vote for a new one. This would increase the power of the people to tackle unsatisfactory services and would mean that jobs are done with the welfare of the community in mind rather than central government targets. It would certainly make councils sit up and do their jobs properly.
    6,7,9 are impossible in practice (although good election promises :top:)
    15 is ridiculous and encourages the selective policing and racism common throughout the US (in the south anyway).

    Other than that, good stuff :yep:
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    “Greatness in individuals is rare; in countries it is almost unique. And Great Britain was great. It used to be said that ‘The sun never sets on the British empire.’ That is how vast Britain’s influence was. And that influence, on balance, was far more positive than negative.”

    .
    'The sun never sets on the empire' is the mentality that's left us obsessed with tradition, unwilling to change, self-satisfied and anti-competitive.
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    3. Make criminals fear the law (and get rid of ASBOs for god’s sake).
    No. Make the law fair and firm. The British legal system has always been about the liberty of the individual versus the state. Now, after someone has been convicted, that's a totally different argument, but nobody should "fear" the state.

    6. Most people won’t agree with this, but I don’t care. Ban Red Top tabloids, reality TV and celebrity magazines.
    No. You seem to be glorifying British history; if you're going to do that, at least do it properly. Britain has the best freedom of speech record of the entire Continent. We are a nation that historically has allowed people to say what they like, regardless of how many people disagree with it.

    8. Strict, over-the-top punishments for anyone caught selling alcohol, cigarettes or knives to those without ID.
    Why? What problems do you think this poses? How about we have reasonable ages to buy alcohol and tobacco?

    9. Develop a set of values of how a British man and British woman should behave by, regardless of race, sexual orientation, financial background or other discriminating factors. Make these known to everyone from a young age, through schools, pubic campaigns etc.
    Again, here you go, glorifying British history but ignoring that individualism was founded in this country and our ancestors fought for the right for people to be individuals, not part of some centrally planned collective.

    I like your other points, though.
 
 
 
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