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Socialists are lazy and jealous. Do you agree? watch

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    (Original post by Gremlins)
    Social class is hereditary...
    And doesn't exist outside the abstract.
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    (Original post by Gremlins)
    Social class is hereditary...
    Well, for one thing, it's not. And for another, I've actually never heard of a non-circular definition of what social class is (usually it's something to do with your relationship to the means of production. But what is a means of production? What distinguishes a factory from a cookie tray? Usually it's something to do with class exploitation, closing the circle.)
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    (Original post by DrunkHamster)
    Well, for one thing, it's not. And for another, I've actually never heard of a non-circular definition of what social class is (usually it's something to do with your relationship to the means of production. But what is a means of production? What distinguishes a factory from a cookie tray? Usually it's something to do with class exploitation, closing the circle.)
    Well actually for the purpose of this argument I was going on about the ABC1C2DE model. The differences between a factory and a cookie tray are pretty obvious to anyone who isn't being facetious :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Gremlins)
    Well actually for the purpose of this argument I was going on about the ABC1C2DE model. The differences between a factory and a cookie tray are pretty obvious to anyone who isn't being facetious :rolleyes:
    Is a cookie tray a means of production? The difference might be intuitively obvious but I'd like to hear what Marxist/Marxian leaning people base the distinction on, rather than (the rather unscientific) 'I know it when I see it.'
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    (Original post by DrunkHamster)
    Is a cookie tray a means of production? The difference might be intuitively obvious but I'd like to hear what Marxist/Marxian leaning people base the distinction on, rather than (the rather unscientific) 'I know it when I see it.'
    If you're using it to make cookies which you're not going to consume yourself (i.e., you plan on selling them) then yes, it is a means of production. However, since you can operate an oven and a cookie tray all by yourself it's qualitatively different to the Ryvita factory down the road from me, which is pretty big, which the owners couldn't possibly operate just on their own, and which hundreds of people are dependent on for their livelihoods.
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    No, I disagree completely.

    Socialists are people that simply believe that society works better when people pool their resources.
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    Socialists aren't worth the oxygen they steal.

    They hate individual success and a desire to achieve.
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    The arguments in this thread (from both sides) are far too concerned with material value.
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    Conservatives are rich, self-centred and out of touch. Have any more clichés to discuss, anyone?
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    Socialists aren't worth the oxygen they steal.

    They hate individual success and a desire to achieve.
    so ignorant, and downright rude as well. Any further nasty stereotypes of the right you'd care to reinforce while you're at it.
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    Lazy and jealouse? Isn't that the socialist workers parties motto?
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    (Original post by scanningforlifeforms)
    Socialists aren't worth the oxygen they steal.

    They hate individual success and a desire to achieve
    .

    so ignorant, and downright rude as well. Any further nasty stereotypes of the right you'd care to reinforce while you're at it.
    Yes, you're too much of a pussy to quote me and ensure a reply.

    Well you would consider it ignorant, you're one of those O2 thieves. Go bury your head in the sand and complain about how the working class are tools of capitalist fat-cats.
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    I wouldnt say there lazy, dont they like try and make sure there programs work really well ? the harder it gets the harder the drive the workforce ?
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    Yes, you're too much of a pussy to quote me and ensure a reply.

    Well you would consider it ignorant, you're one of those O2 thieves. Go bury your head in the sand and complain about how the working class are tools of capitalist fat-cats.
    actually that was a mistake on my part, and i apologise for it. Once I've finished typing this I'l go back & edit it. I'm going to suppose you're a reasonably intelligent person, despite your previous posts-Oxygen cannot be stolen, it is a naturally occuring element in the earth's atmosphere. to steal it, someone most own it, and as no-one does, you can't call me an oxygen thief.

    However, the fact you would says more about you and your distorted view of politics. Someone deserving of the moniker 'Oxygen thief' might be someone like, say, Ian Huntley? or Harold Shipman? not simply someone you've never met whose ideas you disagree with.

    To answer your question fully, no, socialists are not lazy. I know lots of people who have similar views to myself, we all hold down jobs and work bloody hard at it. I'd be interested to know how many of the people complaining about socialism actually have to graft for a living, rather than having it fall into their lap.

    We're also not jealous. I believe extremes of wealth (and lack of it) creates disharmony in society, as the prioritisation of the accumulation of wealth above all other things brings out some of mankind's nastiest charachteristics-selfishness and greed, for example. More equal societies (as we see in Scandinavia) are more harmonious than less equal ones (such as here and America).
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    (Original post by scanningforlifeforms)
    actually that was a mistake on my part, and i apologise for it. Once I've finished typing this I'l go back & edit it. I'm going to suppose you're a reasonably intelligent person, despite your previous posts-Oxygen cannot be stolen, it is a naturally occuring element in the earth's atmosphere. to steal it, someone most own it, and as no-one does, you can't call me an oxygen thief.

    However, the fact you would says more about you and your distorted view of politics. Someone deserving of the moniker 'Oxygen thief' might be someone like, say, Ian Huntley? or Harold Shipman? not simply someone you've never met whose ideas you disagree with.

    To answer your question fully, no, socialists are not lazy. I know lots of people who have similar views to myself, we all hold down jobs and work bloody hard at it. I'd be interested to know how many of the people complaining about socialism actually have to graft for a living, rather than having it fall into their lap.

    We're also not jealous. I believe extremes of wealth (and lack of it) creates disharmony in society, as the prioritisation of the accumulation of wealth above all other things brings out some of mankind's nastiest charachteristics-selfishness and greed, for example. More equal societies (as we see in Scandinavia) are more harmonious than less equal ones (such as here and America).
    It's a term used to describe someone who isn't worth the oxygen they consume, trying to disprove the term doesn't make you look any better.

    In this society it is possible to make something of yourself if you try, I don't care if someone is substantially richer than me, in fact there are many people richer than me. I'm happy with the course I'm taking. I actually think I'm happier with what I have than if I had more money than I could spend.

    I like the idea of having a goal to work towards, I don't think that is as present in Scandinavian society, and tbh I'd rather live in America.
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    you'd rather live in a society where a guy who's recently lost his job has to decide whether to pay his mortgage, pay for the cancer treatment for his wife or save money for his son to college? Sounds great.
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    Socialists are lazy and jealous? Anyone with the knowledge and understanding to call themselves Socialist (even if you disagree with them) requires some understanding of politics and an intelligent person who has attempted to look Society and a way to improve it. I'll go out on a limb and say that most people that call themselves Socialists, are middle class and academic, therefore are not the ones with the most to gain from socialism (that being the working class, who are broadly speaking, apathetical towards any form Politics). Therefore perhaps Socialists are selfless rather than jealous, relatively hard working rather than lazy and have the presence of mind and morale fiber to recognise and speak out against an unjust system that still serves to maintain the status quo, even when it favours them.
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    In this society it is possible to make something of yourself if you try,
    However you have to try an awful lot harder if you dont come from a privileged background. Socialists believe in an even playing field, the current system believes in headstarts for a select few
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    (Original post by Howard)
    No, I disagree completely.

    Socialists are people that simply believe that society works better when people pool their resources.
    This, though I would add the caveat the vast majority of serious socialists. The people who call themselves socialists because they have a Che T-shirt, but have never read a word of Marx are morons for the most part, though I wouldn't conflate that group with any of the socialists on here obviously. There are people doing it for the aesthetics in all groups.

    Just like there are some libertarians who only subscribe because they think it will be best for them, not caring about everyone else, but most libertarians simply think that the state is illegitimate (to whatever extent) and the free market is the best possible arrangement of society.

    Trying to categorize people's motives just makes you look dumb.

    Unless they are a politician of course.
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    (Original post by scanningforlifeforms)
    you'd rather live in a society where a guy who's recently lost his job has to decide whether to pay his mortgage, pay for the cancer treatment for his wife or save money for his son to college? Sounds great.
    You'd rather live in a country where an employer can fire an employee almost whenever he wants?

    You want to pay £6 for a pint of beer?

    You want to have 50-60% of your money stolen?

    Sounds great.
 
 
 
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