Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Thanks, was just a little curious the other evening as it's not something i've paid any attention to.

    I have my filter interview on the 22nd and although i'm quite sure i know the structure of training regarding the three fields of ABM one thing is persitently nagging at me:

    According to the documentation given to me at the formal presentation the training goes as follows;

    All trainees: 6 weeks SABM

    Surveillance: 20 weeks SABM (producing RAPs learning to identify aircraft)
    Weapons: 25 weeks SABM (Air warfare and fighter control)
    Space: 2 weeks Space Ops. Found. Course
    -then-
    8 weeks Ballistic defense -or- 4 weeks Space Command Course


    If i've missed something here i apologise, but there appears to be a lot less time allocated to the Space field. I was going to ask this question at my interview but decided not to run the risk of looking like i didn't do my research.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jason.faceplant)

    All trainees: 6 weeks SABM

    Surveillance: 20 weeks SABM (producing RAPs learning to identify aircraft)
    Weapons: 25 weeks SABM (Air warfare and fighter control)
    Space: 2 weeks Space Ops. Found. Course
    -then-
    8 weeks Ballistic defense -or- 4 weeks Space Command Course


    If i've missed something here i apologise, but there appears to be a lot less time allocated to the Space field.
    Don't panic! That is correct.

    Vizzini
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hi! This is not related to any previous posts but just to say thanks because this thread is really helpful.

    I am currently in my final year of my degree and looking to join as ABM once graduated. I haven't yet started my application but looking to do so very shortly. Information on here has been very helpful and its good to see posts from people who are actually doing the job!!!

    I have lots of questions but will browse old threads first so as not to waste anyone's time!!! :o:

    xxx
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hi

    I was wondering what the crossing distance is for a 90 with target M0.8 and fighter M0.9? Both of thm around 30,000 feet

    Always wondered

    Thanks Clatchy
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hey ,

    I have a filter interview at the end of the month for the post of an Officer (ABM). I have read through this thread and found it very useful but it doesnt seem to have anything that im looking for, so I pose these questions.

    In my last filter Interview i didnt get recommended for OASC because I was very nervous. How do I prepare myself for the Interview and what would be the vital need to know information for ABM?

    Also Is there anyone who could help draw out an organisational structure of the ABM. I tend to get confused with SD, FC and various other abbrieviated roles!

    Thanks to those that reply. It is greatly appreciated!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hi, i sat my interview a few weeks ago and barely scraped by because of my nerves.

    It's very unlikely you'll be asked about ABM in your interview, but do know the info you was given just incase he asks about the basic idea behind the job you're applying for.

    I had learned stacks and stacks that didn't come up but the list here on the forums with the model questions is pretty accurate and i was asked almost all of them, not that i suggest you don't learn current afairs/NATO/EU etc.

    Also, how long has it been since your last interview?

    You should of gone on some station visits, i visited RAF Scampton and RAF Waddington and met a lot of experienced "ABMs" who gladly answered all of my questions (Note: a 7 hour flight on an E-3D and i stopped asking questions only when i was in the bathroom )

    Station visits will vastly improve your knowledge and thus your confidence when you're asked about what it is you want to do.

    Best of luck at your interview.

    Edit: CRC structure (as far as i could see from RAF Scampton)

    There's the "Master Controller" (MC) who at his side has a "Surveillance Director" (SD) and a "Fighter Allocator" (FA) - These are the decision makers as it were.

    The SD has at hand his Idendification Officer (IDO) and the non-commisoned operators that the IDO has under him/her.

    The FA has Fighter Controllers (FC) and their non-commisioned operators.

    This is how i understood it while i was on the station visit, but the job titles are really a mess i didn't see one person with ABM since most of the currently operational personell hold the old titles still.

    I hope this helps
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clatchy)
    Hi

    I was wondering what the crossing distance is for a 90 with target M0.8 and fighter M0.9? Both of thm around 30,000 feet

    Always wondered

    Thanks Clatchy

    No idea! As I've said before, there's a reason I'm a Surveillance officer! Standby, I'll ask a Weaponeer...

    Vizzini
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jsadler1990)
    Hey ,

    I have a filter interview at the end of the month for the post of an Officer (ABM). I have read through this thread and found it very useful but it doesnt seem to have anything that im looking for, so I pose these questions.

    In my last filter Interview i didnt get recommended for OASC because I was very nervous. How do I prepare myself for the Interview and what would be the vital need to know information for ABM?

    Also Is there anyone who could help draw out an organisational structure of the ABM. I tend to get confused with SD, FC and various other abbrieviated roles!

    Thanks to those that reply. It is greatly appreciated!
    Hi J,

    As Jason.faceplant says there are some excellent revision questions on the forum - try the stickies at the top of the first page. Also, given J.f's recent experience, they're probably best placed in terms of what to look at before the filter. It is quite a daunting experience, but the interviewers don't actively want you to fail, so try to take some comfort in that. It might be a good idea to practice public speaking to build up confidence, if you have the chance before you go again. Either that, or just do something that really, really scares you and then compare the interview process to that! I don't mean to be flippant, but more experience of being scared will help you control your nerves as it gives you a point of reference to help you get them under control. It also helps to be interviewed a few times (obviously not ideal in this case), since experience also gives you that sense of perspective so you can calm youself. Or, apparently, imagining your interviewer naked... could go either way, I suppose!

    I'll have a dig about and see if we've got an organisational chart on the system somewhere that I can post up here. In the meantime, because I can't draw lines and gucci stuff, I'll try to explain a bit more, since my attempt at ASCII drawing the hierarchy didn't work...

    Top-Level: Master Controller (MC) - runs the Operations Team in a CRC.

    Second-Level: Fighter Allocator (FA) and Surveillance Director (SD) - FA runs the Weapons Team and the SD runs the... Surveillance Team; report up to MC.

    Third-level: Weapons Controllers (WCs) report upward to FA as part of... Weapons team; Identification Officers (IDOs) report upward to SD as part of Suveillance Team.

    There's quite a lot more to it than that... however I need to get a proper image as it'll take me several years to go through it all in this manner . That's the (very) basics for the core responsibilities of Recognised Air Picture (RAP) Production and Weapons Control.

    Clearly this is pretty much what J.f said, I've just sexed it up... Also, what you need to realise is that ABM is the Specialization title - we are officers in the Operation Support Branch Specialisation of Aerospace Battle Management, usually abbreviated to OS(ABM), or just ABM. This is the same as ATC, who are another Operations Support Branch specialization (so OS (ATC), or just ATC) and Flight Operations (OS (Flight Ops)). In that way we then have the Surveillance and Weapons Sub-Specializations... The reference to us being the ABM branch goes back to when there was no Operations Support Branch and we were simply the Fighter Control Branch. It's a hangover of old terminology, so I'm sorry if I've confused people. I imagine this last paragraph hasn't helped either!

    Does the rest help in the meantime?

    Vizzini
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clatchy)
    Hi

    I was wondering what the crossing distance is for a 90 with target M0.8 and fighter M0.9? Both of thm around 30,000 feet

    Always wondered

    Thanks Clatchy
    Right, I asked. Four miles.

    Don't ask me to explain; I asked for an explanation and it involved diagrams and pointy hands...:eek:.

    I am assured it's the correct answer!

    Vizzini
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Nice sexing there Just out of curiousity are you based in Boulmer? I'm thinking about organising a RJP up there possibly after the new year before OASC (providing i get the congrats letter) and the station will have me.

    As for the job role confusion, everyone i spoke to at scampton and on the E3 were trying their best to explain how the old format sits on the new one, without much success. But seeing it all in action is a much easier way to understand what happens over reading this and that. Which is why i have to keep saying station visits are very very worthwhile! You ABMs or whatever you prefer to call yourselves :P are very helpful.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Thanks for you help guys my interview is booked for the 26th at my local AFCO. Its been about 3 Months Sinc my last Interview. So Atm Im revising hard for the end of the month. I would love to go on a station visit but i fear its to late. In truth i dismissed the idea of a visit because im in work atm and risk losing my job if i have to much time off especially if i go to OASC ontop. But out of interest do you think you can visit it weekends. I assume it has to be a weekday? Believe it or not that information was extremely useful.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Google RAF Scampton RAF Boulmer RAF Waddington (whichever is your most local) and find out how to contact them, and do so, promptly.

    I wish i had visited a station prior to my interview as what i have learned(learnt?) since has been vital to making me comfortable as i approach OASC.

    It could take a few weeks to get a reply, since they tend to be rather busy, but you might get lucky and have one contact you before your interview (plus you can say you have actually made the effort when you are asked in the interview).
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hi Everyone

    I have been called up to OASC in the new year. I was hoping to arrange to go to Boulmer for a job preview. Would I need to arrange this via my AFCO or would I need to contact Boulmer?

    Thanks
    Ian
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jason.faceplant)
    Google RAF Scampton RAF Boulmer RAF Waddington (whichever is your most local) and find out how to contact them, and do so, promptly.
    What he said...

    (Original post by Mooresy001)
    Hi Everyone

    I have been called up to OASC in the new year. I was hoping to arrange to go to Boulmer for a job preview. Would I need to arrange this via my AFCO or would I need to contact Boulmer?
    And also, since there are some questions about this process...

    The Realistic Job Preview (RJP), which I've mentioned before earlier in this thread, bears re-stating.

    The RJP is organised through your AFCO, together with the Institute of Recruitment (IofR) at RAF Cranwell. Really, your AFCO should offer you the opportunity, but if not, pester them!

    They will contact IofR, who will load you onto our visits program. You'll then come up to Boulmer for a 3-day visit, where you'll experience all aspects of the ABM life. The best way to understand how what I've written here actually works is to see it in real live action!

    You'll come as part of a group. Your AFCO will make your travel arrangements, though you may have to book your train times (if you're travelling that way...). You'll be met by the Hosting Officer, who is an ABM, and there will also be an Escorting Officer, who is usually drawn from an AFCO to answer RAF-any queries and also expose them to the Specialization.

    The short answer to your query is: ask your AFCO to get you on an RJP - it's well worth it. I had a whale of a time on mine!

    If you can't make an RJP date, the IofR can organize visits here on a one-off basis, but it is far more worthwhile to come on an RJP as you'll get to meet the other candidates as well as us lot.

    Vizzini
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I was going to ask about station visits but after my initial interview ill query at the AFCO.

    Some very informative answers and thank you for taking the time to reply, all three positions look interesting but I think Weapons is probably my preference followed by Space.

    Usually I can be quite nervous when put into these kind of interview situations, but im actually quite looking forward to it. Think it's helped by having all this background info to start with, so once again, thank you. And hopefully be seeing yous guys in the near future !
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jack_frost)
    I was going to ask about station visits but after my initial interview ill query at the AFCO.

    Some very informative answers and thank you for taking the time to reply, all three positions look interesting but I think Weapons is probably my preference followed by Space.

    Usually I can be quite nervous when put into these kind of interview situations, but im actually quite looking forward to it. Think it's helped by having all this background info to start with, so once again, thank you. And hopefully be seeing yous guys in the near future !
    Thank you Jack and good luck with your interview!

    Vizzini
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Some very informative answers and thank you for taking the time to reply, all three positions look interesting but I think Weapons is probably my preference followed by Space.
    Just a little bit more info, you don't choose your stream (perhaps you know this already) but instead you're put into what you qualify for after the aptitude testing.

    From what i have gathered so far, the Space stream is quite minor and still something that is being developed so chances are you'll be put in Weapons or Surveillance with the chance you could be streamed space later on (this i'm unsure about).

    After doing visits to Waddington/Scampton or Boulmer you'll get a better picture, but i'm also favouring Weapons at the minute.

    I was told however not to pin my hopes and dreams on one stream since it's really not a matter of what you want to do but instead what you're capable of.

    Oh and don't ask any ABM "Which stream is best?" because they will always say theirs Although the ensuing argument between the two is quite entertaining :p:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jason.faceplant)
    Just a little bit more info, you don't choose your stream (perhaps you know this already) but instead you're put into what you qualify for after the aptitude testing.

    From what i have gathered so far, the Space stream is quite minor and still something that is being developed so chances are you'll be put in Weapons or Surveillance with the chance you could be streamed space later on (this i'm unsure about).

    After doing visits to Waddington/Scampton or Boulmer you'll get a better picture, but i'm also favouring Weapons at the minute.

    I was told however not to pin my hopes and dreams on one stream since it's really not a matter of what you want to do but instead what you're capable of.

    Oh and don't ask any ABM "Which stream is best?" because they will always say theirs Although the ensuing argument between the two is quite entertaining :p:
    Hi Jason,

    Again, you're broadly correct. Rather than being 'minor', Space is a growth area for us at the moment, hence the change to the Aerospace Battle Management Streaming Course (ABMSC) from the prior Air Defence Foundation course. At the ABMSC you can now be streamed one of 3 ways, whereas previously it was only Weapons or Surveillance.

    There is now the option to re-stream from Space at a later stage of your career, however, current plans will require you to re-sit the ABMSC to enusre you have sufficient aptitude. There will, most likely, only be the opportunity to re-stream to Surveillance as the aptitudes required are broadly similar. Tradionally, Space operatives have been drawn from the Surveillance stream as second-tourists, anyway, and they returned to that after 2 or 3 tours.

    Going back to aptitude, everyone is entitled to express a preference of stream at ABMSC and it does carry some weight in the selection process. However, aptitude and trainability for the specific role are what carry the most weight and you'll be streamed on that basis.

    And also, clearly, Surveillance is better :p:.

    Vizzini
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Thankyou for clearing that up, i try to offer what i've learnt from my visits but it did seem that a lot of the people i spoke to were unsure of the way things currently work.

    I am a forum pest and i will continue to be until well after OASC i should imagine

    And i've heard surveillance is best, oh and so is Weapons, yet to meet someone from Space, but i'm sure that's the best too!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jason.faceplant)
    I am a forum pest and i will continue to be until well after OASC i should imagine
    Jason,

    Feel free to pester away, that's why I'm on here!

    Vizzini
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

3,837

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
Will you be tempted to trade up and get out of your firm offer on results day?
Useful resources

Articles:

Guide to the armed forcesGuide to the Royal Air ForceA job in the Army

Featured recruiter profiles:

Army logo

The Army is recruiting now

"With hundreds of roles available, there’s more than one way to be the best."

Quick Link:

Unanswered Armed Forces Threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.