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    (Original post by Goddess Fury)
    True, he is not a puppet....that goes for every US president since Kennedy.
    Actually, the 'Presidential Puppetry' merchandise line covers everyone, all the way back to Washington!
    Oh... metaphor... social commentary... zealous conspiracy...
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    (Original post by Goddess Fury)
    Really, can you give me some names of CURRENT BNP members with convictions for assault.( Dont just C&P a list of ex-members who have not been members for years from searchlight)

    Kevin Scott, former North East regional organiser has two convictions for assault and is still a member

    Colin Smith has multiple convictions, including possession of an offensive weapon, driving whilst disqualified, and possession of a controlled drug. He's their regional organiser for South East London, or at least used to be.

    It's somewhat difficult in some of these cases to confirm who is and who isn't a current member. Obviously the BNP don't shout out when they haven't expelled some violent nutter.

    I am of course, under no obligation to limit my critique solely to current members, the kind of people the BNP attracts should be evidence enough of their nature, whether they are later expelled is an irrelevence. A brief history of the BNP would be enough to ensure that anyone with a commitment to peaceful involvement in the political process would stay the hell away from them.

    (Original post by Goddess Fury)
    John Tyndall banned joinet membership to C18 in 1993. C18 today is nothing more than a website...they don't really exist.
    I'm sure he did officially, doesn't mean individuals within the BNP didn't keep up links. I'm more than aware that extremist parties have unofficial links with what are essentially paramilitary organisations.

    Yeah, they don't exist, if you say so.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    What a ****ing retard.

    He's comparing UAF to a totalitarian government and a brutal militia?

    Still, he's a fascist defending other fascists. Not surprising.
    You don't need to be a fascist to take his stance and oppose intervention in Iran.

    btw before everyone sucks the BNP off too hard, other parties oppose interventionist foreign policy as well. :yep:
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Eminent Labour Party members' convictions
    Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe) Martin Locklyn - Convicted and jailed for 15 years for sexually abusing 3 14-year-old boys.

    . Labour Councillor (North Lincolnshire) David Spooner - Convicted and jailed for 1 year for masturbating in front of 2 young boys.

    . Labour Mayor (Westhoughton/Lancashire) Nicholas Green - Convicted and jailed for 10 years for 3 rapes and 13 counts of indecent assault against little girls between the age of 6 and 10. He raped one woman on her wedding day.

    . Labour Mayor (Todmorden) John Winstanley - Convicted and jailed for rape and threats to kill. After raping and threatening to kill his terrified victim, Winstanley then ordered the woman to go on all fours before urinating on her.

    . Prominent Labour Party activist Mark Tann (who has met Tony & Cherie at Party functions) recently got a 15-year sentence for raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions.

    . Labour’s current Parliamentary Candidate (Reading East) Tony Page - Has 2 Convictions for Acts of Gross Indecency` in public toilets.

    . Labour Mayor (Burnley) Peter Swainston - Convicted of sex offences in public toilet.

    . Entire Labour Party conspired to conceal the activities of Labour Party activist and serial child-molester Mark Trotter, who died from AIDS before he could be convicted.

    . Labour Councillor (North Yorkshire) Raymond Coats - Court appearance for indecently assaulting a woman.

    . Labour MP (Rhonda Valley) Chris Bryant poses in his pants on the Internet to advertise himself for casual gay sex encounters. Describes himself as “Horny as buggery” and says, “I’d love a good long ****”.

    . Labour Councillor (Manchester), George Harding - Charged with indecent assault on a girl of 12.

    . Labour MP Ron Davies was mugged by a Rasta on Clapham Common while cruising for gay sex. He was photographed again by the media recently, engaged in some `man-on-man` action in a field off a motorway. “I was only looking for badgers” he said.

    . Labour Councillor (Durham), Derrick Payne - Arrested by Police following a sex attack.

    . Labour MP, Joe Ashton - Caught up in a Police raid while frequenting a brothel. Tried to lie his way out of the scandal.

    . Labour Councillor (Shropshire), Derek Woodvine - Arrested by Police in anti-porn operation.

    . Labour Councillor (Basildon), Tony Wright - Forced to resign after being caught using his council computer to download porn.

    . Labour MP (Sheffield), Clive Betts - Suspended from Parliament for 7 days after being caught forging immigration papers to extend the stay of his Brazilian rent-boy gay lover.

    . According to media reports, the names of 2 former Labour Cabinet Ministers said to be `Household names` appear on the `Operation Ore ` list of subscribers to hard-core child pornography. The same FBI investigation, which led to the arrest of rock star Pete Townshend. So who are they Mr Blair?

    Labour Councillor (Kirkby, Merseyside) Charlie Preston - Convicted and jailed for 5 years in 1982 for assault and burglary. Preston broke into the home of a 64 year old man, and beat him up in his bed as he slept before robbing the house. The judge described the case as “As bad a matter of burglary as I can remember” Preston also holds the position on the Council of… `Deputy Cabinet Member for Youth, Citizenship, and Community Safety`.

    . Labour Councillor ( Wales ) Denis Jones - Convicted and jailed for unlawful wounding after attacking a neighbour with a sledgehammer.

    . Labour Councillor ( Wales ) Ken Brookman - Bit off a mans ear in a dispute over a seat on a train!

    . Labour Councillor and former Mayor (Stockton), Keith Dobinson - Investigated by Police for alleged assault on an OAP, which left the old man of 79, hospitalised.

    . Labour MP, Tommy Graham - Expelled from Party for his part in driving a person to suicide.

    . Labour Councillors (Ilfracombe), Brian Cotton and Tony Cooper - Investigated by Police following serious allegations of Harassment

    Labour Councillor (Sandwell) Mohamed Niwaz convicted of illegally obtaining £20,000 in Housing Grants.

    . Labour Councillors in Doncaster - 23 Convicted and 2 jailed for massive fraud, corruption and theft of public funds. Investigation also uncovered massive Labour Party corruption in neighbouring Rotherham .

    . Labour Party Councillor ( Blackburn ), Mohammed Hussein - arrested together with 6 Labour activists on suspicion of Election rigging.

    . Labour MP Mohammed Sawar ( Britain ’s first Asian MP - Glasgow) was the subject of a major News of the World investigation a few years ago into bribery and corruption. Despite this, the massive Asian population in his constituency keeps him safely in his seat.

    . Labour MP (Leicester) and former Cabinet Minister, Keith Vaz - Investigated for fraud and corruption before quietly leaving his Europe Minister post with `health problems`. According to his former Secretary, Vaz does absolutely nothing in his constituency other than help local Pakistanis with their Immigration cases (which also helps to explain the `whites a minority` status of Leicester and the safe Labour seat of Mr Vaz)

    . Labour Party Euro MP, David Martin is currently being investigated for an alleged expenses fraud involving `hundreds of thousands of pounds`.

    . Labour Councillor (Glamorgan), Shaun Stringer - Forced to resign following Police investigation into financial corruption

    Tony Blair recently appointed his close friend/crony and colleague of his wife - Ken Macdonald as the new Director of Public Prosecutions, despite the fact he has a drugs conviction.

    . William Straw - Son of Labour Foreign Secretary, and former Home Secretary - Jack Straw, was cautioned by Police for drug dealing, amid a frantic Government attempt to cover up the matter and gag the media as to his identity. Jack Straw also has a brother who was convicted of a sex attack on a schoolgirl. Lovely family!

    . Homosexual mass murderer; Dennis Nielsen, who strangled and dismembered 16 young men in the 1980`s, was also a highly active member of Labour fringe groups such as the Anti-Nazi League, and the SWP. That’s when he wasn’t busy boiling peoples heads in a pot, or masturbating over the corpses of his victims


    Eminent Tory Party members' convictions
    Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell - Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

    . Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys - Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.

    . Tory Party Vice-Chairman of Welsh Conservatives, Andrew Baker - Received a banning order for stalking women.

    . Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor - Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

    . Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) Christopher Pilkington - Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

    . Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy - Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

    . Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan - Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

    . Tory Party MEP, Tom Spencer - Caught smuggling drugs and porn through customs.

    . Tory Party councillor and former Mayor (Wrexham), Michael Morris - Convicted and put on probation for 2 years, for the indecent assault of another man, which was captured on CCTV.

    . Tory Party Liaison Manager on the London Assembly, Douglas Campbell, who’s job includes running the Tory GLA website - Arrested for allegedly downloading child porn. He is currently suspended while the Police investigation continues

    Tory Party MP (Henley), Boris Johnson - Caught on tape plotting to have a man beaten up by a hired thug. The man was a journalist who had written an unsympathetic piece about Johnson’s close friend - Convicted fraudster, Darius Guppy.

    . Tory Party Councillor (Folkestone - in Leader, Michael Howard’s constituency), Robert Richdale - 41 year history of crime, involving 30 convictions and 5 prison sentences. Richdales enormous criminal record, which covers 10 pages of A4 paper, includes convictions for assault, theft, causing death by dangerous driving, forgery, drugs offences, possession of an offensive weapon, and sex attacks against underage schoolgirls. The Tory Party election campaign literature described Richdale as “a family man” who had a “compassionate personality”

    Tory Party councillor (Dudley), Abdul Quadus, who was also chairman of the Dudley Police Committee and a Tory Party spokesman on crime - Convicted and jailed for 6 months for passport fraud and assisting illegal immigration from his native country - Pakistan.

    . Former Tory Party Cabinet Minister, Jonathan Aitken - Convicted and jailed for Perjury and Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.

    . Former Tory Leader of Westminster Council, Dame Shirley Porter - Fled to Israel to evade justice after indulging in fraud, corruption and gerrymandering on a massive scale, and stealing millions of pounds from local taxpayers.

    . Tory Party Councillor ( Margate ), Colin Kiddell - Forced to resign after Police investigation into his alleged theft and embezzlement of funds from the local `Dreamland` Amusement Park.

    . Former Tory Party Chairman and London Mayoral Candidate, Jeffrey Archer - Convicted and jailed for Perjury and Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.


    Eminent Lib Dem members' convictions
    Lib-Dem Council candidate (Tower Hamlets), Justin Sillman - Convicted and jailed for 2 years for sexual abuse of young boys.

    . Lib-Dem Councillor and Mayoral Candidate ( Sheffield ), Francis Butler- Prosecuted for indecent assault of a young boy.

    . Lib-Dem Councillor ( Stockport ) Neil Derbyshire - Sexually assaulted a 16-year old boy in a public toilet. He was caught with a plastic bag containing lubricant, plastic surgical gloves, a condom, and underpants.

    . Lib-Dem Councillor ( Preston ), Bill Chadwick - Charged with: Making an indecent photograph of a child, Incitement to rape, Incitement to murder, Incitement to kidnap, and Incitement to torture. Chadwick’s gay lover - Alan Valentine, is also a Lib-Dem councillor.

    Lib-Dem councillor (North Norfolk), Catherine Wilkins - Also a nurse until she was struck off the nursing register after being found guilty of mistreating patients and abusive behaviour.

    . Lib-Dem Parliamentary candidate ( Burnley ), Paul Wright - Charged with drunken assault on his `lodger`. Wright sobbed like a baby during the court case, and the case is to be re-listed and heard again after the jury failed to reach a verdict.

    . Lib-Dem Councillor ( Sheffield ) Trevor Morgan - Convicted and jailed for 9 months for unlawful wounding/dangerous driving. After attacking an elderly woman’s Golden retriever dog by throwing pepper in its face, he then seriously injured the dog’s owner - 57-year old Barbara Johnson, with his car as she tried to stop him escaping

    Lib-Dem Councillor (Peterborough), Michael Jackson - Prosecuted for 21 counts of Theft and False Accounting.

    . 3 Lib-Dem Councillors convicted and jailed for Election Fraud in Hackney in 2001

    . 12 Lib-Dem officials convicted of Election Fraud in Oldham in 2001.

    . Julie Roberts - Convicted of 9 counts of benefit fraud in 2003. 2 weeks after the court case, she was elected as a Lib-Dem councillor in Leicester !

    . Lib-Dem councillor (Portsmouth), Ray Race - Convicted and jailed for 4 months for election rigging, along with Lib-Dem colleague Michael Hayward. Race was arrested again in July 2003 for threatening a witness who helped to convict him.

    . Lib-Dem councillor (Lambeth), Gabriel Fernandez - Forced to resign after being investigated for benefit fraud.

    Former Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe - Stood trail for conspiring to have his blackmailing gay lover murdered


    My personal favourite is Ken Brookman from the Labour Party. Biting off someone's ear. Mike Tyson II lol

    Just saying :ninja:
    I'm guessing none of them ever got caught with CS gas and explosives? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    I'm guessing none of them ever got caught with CS gas and explosives? :rolleyes:
    Probably not, but assaulting/raping young children is hardly anything to scream about when these people are running councils up and down the country.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Probably not, but assaulting/raping young children is hardly anything to scream about when these people are running councils up and down the country.
    No, obviously not

    But terrorism would be a fairly worrying trait amongst former high profile members, would it not?

    And it would also throw light on the hypocrisy of Griffin's statements, would it not?
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    No, obviously not

    But terrorism would be a fairly worrying trait amongst former high profile members, would it not?

    And it would also throw light on the hypocrisy of Griffin's statements, would it not?
    Obviously not, but this wasn't even the point tbh. You were expressing concern at the high number of convictions within the BNP, when convictions are hardly anything exclusive to them.

    What statements?
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Obviously not, but this wasn't even the point tbh. You were expressing concern at the high number of convictions within the BNP, when convictions are hardly anything exclusive to them.

    What statements?
    In the sodding video when he's talking about UAF

    I don't approve of UAF's actions, and I think their leader is an utter moron. But the BNP can't exactly complain about the use of violence towards them without irony considering their history.

    Furthermore, as Shamrock expressed, the other major parties are far larger than the BNP, meaning more convictions are to be expected. The fact that the BNP is a relatively small party yet has dozens of past members with numerous offences including petrol bombing someone's house, should give you an idea of the type of people they attract.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    In the sodding video when he's talking about UAF

    I don't approve of UAF's actions, and I think their leader is an utter moron. But the BNP can't exactly complain about the use of violence towards them without irony considering their history.

    Furthermore, as Shamrock expressed, the other major parties are far larger than the BNP, meaning more convictions are to be expected. The fact that the BNP is a relatively small party yet has dozens of past members with numerous offences including petrol bombing someone's house, should give you an idea of the type of people they attract.
    I don't really wish to defend the BNP, and I do think they are more likely to be criminal thugs than member of other parties - but I hardly think its party policy, or encouraged by Nick Griffin.

    You can't really blame Nick for what members of his party do, if he doesn't condone or support their actions!
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    In the sodding video when he's talking about UAF

    I don't approve of UAF's actions, and I think their leader is an utter moron. But the BNP can't exactly complain about the use of violence towards them without irony considering their history.
    Well the difference is that the UAF are politically backed to suppress rival organisations. It is a case of orders from above; whereas the BNP member caught with explosives was seemingly acting under his own jurisdiction. Anyway, it's pointless totting up such things.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Furthermore, as Shamrock expressed, the other major parties are far larger than the BNP, meaning more convictions are to be expected. The fact that the BNP is a relatively small party yet has dozens of past members with numerous offences including petrol bombing someone's house, should give you an idea of the type of people they attract.
    As I said, I only gave you a list of councillors, MPs, candidates and prominent activists. These alone make up the number of convictions listed on the anti-BNP websites.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Well the difference is that the UAF are politically backed to suppress rival organisations. It is a case of orders from above; whereas the BNP member caught with explosives was seemingly acting under his own jurisdiction. Anyway, it's pointless totting up such things.
    I would be extremely surprised to learn that UAF had backing from the major parties when perpetrating violent actions. That would be front page news. I call BNP bull**** on that one.

    I couldn't care less what kind of a front Nick puts on for the cameras, you don't have to dig very deep with this lot to find some very serious issues (criminal convictions, links to Combat 18 and other far right groups both in the US and Europe).

    And people genuinely think that if they took power they would obey the rule of law like any other party. Doesn't look that way considering their members' regard for it.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    I would be extremely surprised to learn that UAF had backing from the major parties when perpetrating violent actions. That would be front page news. I call BNP bull**** on that one.
    Well David Cameron has consistently refused to condemn the actions of UAF members, despite being consulted time and time again.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    I couldn't care less what kind of a front Nick puts on for the cameras, you don't have to dig very deep with this lot to find some very serious issues (criminal convictions, links to Combat 18 and other far right groups both in the US and Europe).

    And people genuinely think that if they took power they would obey the rule of law like any other party. Doesn't look that way considering their members' regard for it.
    Well, yeah. Whatever. I mean, with fairness, you've given me five, ten members at the most. Could you please conform to the principle of total evidence and tell me where all the violent convictions are for the other 13,990 members? This just seems like a typical 'I disagree with their policy so I'll clutch at a load of straws, take one or two issues and present them as "proof"' point.

    And, further still, if they ever did get into power, then I highly doubt criminals will make up the majority of their membership at that point.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Well David Cameron has consistently refused to condemn the actions of UAF members, despite being consulted time and time again.
    That's his problem, it doesn't mean he ordered them to do it.


    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Well, yeah. Whatever. I mean, with fairness, you've given me five, ten members at the most. Could you please conform to the principle of total evidence and tell me where all the violent convictions are for the other 13,990 members? This just seems like a typical 'I disagree with their policy so I'll clutch at a load of straws, take one or two issues and present them as "proof"' point.
    Tony Lecomber-Was a high profile member, eventually forced to resign as late as 2006, though he still maintains links with the BNP.- Two convictions for criminal damage.
    Convicted on five counts for offences under the Explosives Act.
    Sentenced to three years' imprisonment for an attack on a Jewish teacher.

    Stephen Belshaw-Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor.

    Andy McLorie-- Sentenced to two years in jail following a petrol bomb attack on the home of an RUC officer.

    Graham Tasker- - Six months custody for an attack on a black woman.
    Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor.

    Paul Thompson- - Found guilty of criminal damage after participating in an attack with C18 activists in Durham. Sentenced to a year's conditional discharge and made to pay £237 compensation.
    Convicted for violence and jailed for six months.

    Frank Forte-Conviction for Actual Bodily Harm

    Neil Keilty-Convicted of criminal damage.
    Convicted of threatening behaviour, possession of an offensive weapon, 18 months exclsuion order from sporting arenas.
    Convicted for his part in a C18/hooligan attack on a pub in London after the Bloody Sunday march. He was one of six right-wingers who received a one-year sentence.

    I can't be bothered to go on, it's not my job to convince you that everyone in the BNP is violent, and indeed that wasn't even my original intention, since I don't believe that. I've merely given you a list of individuals, some of whom have had high profile roles within the party, and highlighted their convictions.

    I can highlight their links to Combat 18 as well if you want?
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    And if the BNP gets into power, most probably Nick Griffin will want all war to break out
    Do any of you actually believe that the BNP supports iran???? Its all for positive publicity!!!!!!!!!
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    I thought he hated muslims.


    Now he is defending them?
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    (Original post by stevie0444)
    I thought he hated muslims.


    Now he is defending them?
    You can hate islam and not want to go to war with the middle east!

    This isn't about loving Iran or anything, obviously he does not, he's bloody BNP ... but men are dying in these wars and taxpayers money is being spent - plus the public are against it ... so those are all other reasons to oppose the war on terror beyond loving Islam!
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    That's his problem, it doesn't mean he ordered them to do it.




    Tony Lecomber-Was a high profile member, eventually forced to resign as late as 2006, though he still maintains links with the BNP.- Two convictions for criminal damage.
    Convicted on five counts for offences under the Explosives Act.
    Sentenced to three years' imprisonment for an attack on a Jewish teacher.

    Stephen Belshaw-Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor.

    Andy McLorie-- Sentenced to two years in jail following a petrol bomb attack on the home of an RUC officer.

    Graham Tasker- - Six months custody for an attack on a black woman.
    Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor.

    Paul Thompson- - Found guilty of criminal damage after participating in an attack with C18 activists in Durham. Sentenced to a year's conditional discharge and made to pay £237 compensation.
    Convicted for violence and jailed for six months.

    Frank Forte-Conviction for Actual Bodily Harm

    Neil Keilty-Convicted of criminal damage.
    Convicted of threatening behaviour, possession of an offensive weapon, 18 months exclsuion order from sporting arenas.
    Convicted for his part in a C18/hooligan attack on a pub in London after the Bloody Sunday march. He was one of six right-wingers who received a one-year sentence.

    I can't be bothered to go on, it's not my job to convince you that everyone in the BNP is violent, and indeed that wasn't even my original intention, since I don't believe that. I've merely given you a list of individuals, some of whom have had high profile roles within the party, and highlighted their convictions.

    I can highlight their links to Combat 18 as well if you want?
    Yes, and I understand this. But, as shown by the convictions in other political parties, it's hardly something exclusive to the BNP. Would you say that because of all those members listed in the Labour Party, convicted for assault that, in your words, you shouldn't "think that when they're in power they would obey the rule of law like any other party. Doesn't look that way considering their members' regard for it". This is just a case of picking and choosing on the basis of your personal preference isn't it?

    Yeah, alright, if you must.
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    I quite liked it, and I hate those people who try to deny freedom of speech to people they don't really like, that's really not what freedom of speech is about- freedom for everyone except the people you really don't like.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Yes, and I understand this. But, as shown by the convictions in other political parties, it's hardly something exclusive to the BNP. Would you say that because of all those members listed in the Labour Party, convicted for assault that, in your words, you shouldn't "think that when they're in power they would obey the rule of law like any other party. Doesn't look that way considering their members' regard for it". This is just a case of picking and choosing on the basis of your personal preference isn't it?

    Yeah, alright, if you must.
    I reread the list you posted. At most there are a couple of convictions for violent offences, which given the size of the Labour Party is pretty insignificant. Constrast this with the BNP, comparatively smaller and yet with a great deal more in the way of convictions for violent offences. Most of the names I posted were of individuals with relatively senior positions in the party, unlike the examples you gave which were mostly councillors. Incidentally, you gave the names of several individuals who weren't actually members of the Labour Party, but never mind.

    And I can't be bothered to post up the links between BNP members and other far right groups, it's well documented and you can go hunting for it if you actually want. I see little to be gained from providing you with more evidence when your current state is the debating equivalent of sticking both fingers in your ears and chanting to yourself.

    You have a ridiculously uncritical attitude towards the BNP, I suspect you're a sympathiser, you've hinted at it in other threads. You just don't want to admit it for fear of being shunned.

    Grow up
 
 
 
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