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    I read a report awhile ago by some respected US academics about the Israel and US relationship. It spoke alot about the power of the jewish lobby in the US. Whilst on the MIT site i found a video where the authors of a book about the relationship give a lecture and then there is a debate.

    Thought some of you guys might be interested, it's an honest analysis given at a respected university by respected academics and so hopefully this might provoke a debate that isn't quashed with cries of antisemitism or one that will fall into actual antisemitism.

    http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/3273-th...foreign-policy
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    The Israel lobby wouldn't be powerful if we didn't have such high support levels in the US... and lets be honest some 80% of American Jews voted for Obama - they don't give a **** about Israel. Our real supporters are the Evangelicals and conservatives not the liberal Jews.
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    Two reasons, they want the Jewish/American votes, and they want to be friends with the only nucleur eastern state.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    The Israel lobby wouldn't be powerful if we didn't have such high support levels in the US... and lets be honest some 80% of American Jews voted for Obama - they don't give a **** about Israel. Our real supporters are the Evangelicals and conservatives not the liberal Jews.
    Your first point doesn't really mean much to be honest because it doesn't tackle the reason why it may have a high level of support.

    If politicians, journalists and academics are fearful of talking negatively about Israel because they will receive 10 thousand complaints from a determined minority of people or be smeared as antisemites, then they are likely to take a pro Israel position. Once we get to this stage, virtually all information regarding Israel presented to the US population is pro-Israel. It's unsurprising then that Americans will look at Israel favourably if this is all the information they are given, in a sense they are basing their position on a biased account. In reality, a minority of people can exert a large influence because although 20,000 people is not a huge amount of people, if organised they can harass politicians or journalists with letter campaigns and change policy. This isn't illegal and i'm not saying they are wrong to promote their own special interest, but i think it is a shame that the media and politicians are unwilling to give a balanced account out of fear for what is a organised and well funded minority.

    I'm not saying all jews are involved or even what the lobby does is wrong. But personally i'd find it annoying if every report about something was pro-Israeli simply out of fear or through enticement than have a balanced account.

    It is true that evangelicals support the lobby aswell.

    Have you watched the debate?
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    (Original post by George231086)
    Your first point doesn't really mean much to be honest because it doesn't tackle the reason why it may have a high level of support.

    If politicians, journalists and academics are fearful of talking negatively about Israel because they will receive 10 thousand complaints from a determined minority of people or be smeared as antisemites, then they are likely to take a pro Israel position. Once we get to this stage, virtually all information regarding Israel presented to the US population is pro-Israel. It's unsurprising then that Americans will look at Israel favourably if this is all the information they are given, in a sense they are basing their position on a biased account. In reality, a minority of people can exert a large influence because although 20,000 people is not a huge amount of people, if organised they can harass politicians or journalists with letter campaigns and change policy. This isn't illegal and i'm not saying they are wrong to promote their own special interest, but i think it is a shame that the media and politicians are unwilling to give a balanced account out of fear for what is a organised and well funded minority.

    I'm not saying all jews are involved or even what the lobby does is wrong. But personally i'd find it annoying if every report about something was pro-Israeli simply out of fear or through enticement than have a balanced account.

    It is true that evangelicals support the lobby aswell.

    Have you watched the debate?
    Proof by contradiction: CNN.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    Proof by contradiction: CNN.
    There are multiple quotes from influential figures in the media and politics made by the speakers which show the power of the lobby and the atmosphere of fear regarding criticising Israel. Fear of smear campaigns etc.
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    The book is probably 'The Israel Lobby' by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

    Thats a rather good if long synopsis of the book. I enjoyed it, dispels a few myths.
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    Thank god the US back Israel.

    Just imagine where Israel would be right now had the US not taken an interest. In the words of the Iranian president: "wiped off the face of the earth".
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    (Original post by bigfatflanker)
    Two reasons, they want the Jewish/American votes, and they want to be friends with the only nucleur eastern state.
    What about India and Pakistan?
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    (Original post by ScotlandStandUp)
    Thank god the US back Israel.

    Just imagine where Israel would be right now had the US not taken an interest. In the words of the Iranian president: "wiped off the face of the earth".
    if only
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    (Original post by ScotlandStandUp)
    Thank god the US back Israel.

    Just imagine where Israel would be right now had the US not taken an interest. In the words of the Iranian president: "wiped off the face of the earth".
    Yet when Israel did have to fight alone it did pretty well.
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    (Original post by George231086)
    Your first point doesn't really mean much to be honest because it doesn't tackle the reason why it may have a high level of support.

    If politicians, journalists and academics are fearful of talking negatively about Israel because they will receive 10 thousand complaints from a determined minority of people or be smeared as antisemites, then they are likely to take a pro Israel position. Once we get to this stage, virtually all information regarding Israel presented to the US population is pro-Israel. It's unsurprising then that Americans will look at Israel favourably if this is all the information they are given, in a sense they are basing their position on a biased account. In reality, a minority of people can exert a large influence because although 20,000 people is not a huge amount of people, if organised they can harass politicians or journalists with letter campaigns and change policy. This isn't illegal and i'm not saying they are wrong to promote their own special interest, but i think it is a shame that the media and politicians are unwilling to give a balanced account out of fear for what is a organised and well funded minority.

    I'm not saying all jews are involved or even what the lobby does is wrong. But personally i'd find it annoying if every report about something was pro-Israeli simply out of fear or through enticement than have a balanced account.

    It is true that evangelicals support the lobby aswell.

    Have you watched the debate?
    The American academia (and actually everywhere, ironically including Israel) is not pro Israeli at all. Far from it. So there's no sense in what you're saying.
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    (Original post by danielj315)
    Yet when Israel did have to fight alone it did pretty well.
    When have Israel fought alone? They've always had the backing of either Britain or the US (or both).

    Certainly Israel would not have acted with such vigour and bravado in the past were it not for the support of the US and any attempts to deny the Israel-US relationship and power of the Jewish lobby will always come across as feeble, IMO.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    The Israel lobby wouldn't be powerful if we didn't have such high support levels in the US... and lets be honest some 80% of American Jews voted for Obama - they don't give a **** about Israel. Our real supporters are the Evangelicals and conservatives not the liberal Jews.
    Why do the Evangelicals and conservatives support Israel?
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    Israel are ****s
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    (Original post by stevie0444)
    Israel are ****s
    and up to this point, there was an actual debate going on without someone derailing it.
    I see the relationship between Israel and the US as mutually beneficial, although Israel obviously benefits more, Israel is a world leader in the diamond industry, software development, tourism. Two-way trade between the United States and Israel was about $12.6 Billion in 2007. It also accounts for 10% of world military exports.
    Anyway, I havn't had the time to watch it because I'm busy right now but, when I do I'll give my opinion on the video (although it's loooong)
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    (Original post by manwithaplan)
    ...tourism.
    Though it will make only an infinitesimal difference (it's more of a symbolic attack than anything), you may be interested to read of Israel scrapping the English and Arabic road signs in Jerusalem, which is meant to be a city beloved to all, and keeping just the Hebrew.

    http://www.mywire.com/a/AFP/Israel-t...52039?&pbl=251
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    (Original post by Ascient)
    Though it will make only an infinitesimal difference (it's more of a symbolic attack than anything), you may be interested to read of Israel scrapping the English and Arabic road signs in Jerusalem, which is meant to be a city beloved to all, and keeping just the Hebrew.

    http://www.mywire.com/a/AFP/Israel-t...52039?&pbl=251
    Actually you totally misunderstood what they are doing - they are transliterating. For example instead of "Jerusalem" being written there will be "Yerushallyim". And supposed to be a city beloved to all? Total ********, it only seems to be wanted when it is under Jewish control.
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    (Original post by bigfatflanker)
    Two reasons, they want the Jewish/American votes, and they want to be friends with the only nucleur eastern state.
    Not really, Jews make up 2% of the population and are largely secular - many don't give a damn about Israel. If Israel was their main concern then 80% would not have voted for Obama, they would have voted for the more Israel friendly Mccain.
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    That was an interesting talk - well worth watching to see a sensible approach to the topic for once. (And I recommend that people like PeeWeeDan actually watch it, rather that just repeating arguments that were addressed in the talk).
 
 
 
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