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    (Original post by booger)
    Manual every time. Its more fun, its more economical, there is less to go wrong with it, it lasts longer, it lets you make driving decisions you just can't with an automatic. Its more economical because the automatic only changes up gears once the engine reaches a certain amount of revs. I can drive along in my car at 30 in fifth gear, doing little more than tick over, really economical driving. Can't do that with an auto, it just uses more than it needs to.

    It means you can't use a number of advanced car control techniques. Its making choices for you. Have you ever seen an automatic do a hill climb race? You build up speed so the car puts it in a higher gear, then you reach the hill and it has to downshift all over again and you lose momentum. You want to get loads of revs on in a low gear, can't do it in an auto. I drove my Nan's automatic LR discovery 3 for about an hour a while ago. I went off-road with it as well, scary. It was a relaxing, well built car. But I felt uninvolved, as if I had no say in when to change gear, what gear is right for the situation and some of the changes were a bit uncomfortable. That said you can just put your foot down and not worry about clutch control off the lights, again relaxing, nice but not fun.
    I doubt you get the best fuel consumption when it is barely ticking over; from my experience I get the best fuel consumption at about 1500rpm.
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    (Original post by booger)
    Manual every time. Its more fun, its more economical, there is less to go wrong with it, it lasts longer, it lets you make driving decisions you just can't with an automatic. Its more economical because the automatic only changes up gears once the engine reaches a certain amount of revs. I can drive along in my car at 30 in fifth gear, doing little more than tick over, really economical driving. Can't do that with an auto, it just uses more than it needs to.

    It means you can't use a number of advanced car control techniques. Its making choices for you. Have you ever seen an automatic do a hill climb race? You build up speed so the car puts it in a higher gear, then you reach the hill and it has to downshift all over again and you lose momentum. You want to get loads of revs on in a low gear, can't do it in an auto. I drove my Nan's automatic LR discovery 3 for about an hour a while ago. I went off-road with it as well, scary. It was a relaxing, well built car. But I felt uninvolved, as if I had no say in when to change gear, what gear is right for the situation and some of the changes were a bit uncomfortable. That said you can just put your foot down and not worry about clutch control off the lights, again relaxing, nice but not fun.
    You have some valid points, but you don't really know how an auto box works. The first point about it only changing up after a certain rpm is wrong, the shift point changes depending on the speed of the car, how fast the engine is spinning up, how hard you're pressing the accelerator, even if it's a 20 year old box, and hundreds of other things if it's a new car with a CPU. My old Range Rover would lock out over 50mph into fourth and was quite good at staying in 4th even at low rpm until you booted it to get the kickdown cable to shift it or it couldn't pull any more.

    The other points about off roading in it or hill climbing are also invalid, these situations are what the lockdown gears are for. Ever wondered what those extra numbers on the gate were? When the stick is in that position the box will only select gears of that number or below. Precisely to stop the box crashing around between 2nd and 3rd when in a hilly area and you're towing or similar. Also to give you engine braking. Locking into first in low ratio will give you just as much cadence braking as a manual box in first in low ratio, obviously dependent on gear ratios.

    A Discovery 3 is pretty much the most advanced, off the shelf, off roaders in the world. If you know how to use the auto box properly (god forbid anyone knows how to do anything properly on their own any more) then it will take you places that would surprise you.
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    I would much rather have an auto, but as previously said if your car has a smaller engine it will not be a pleasant experience, it also depends on company really i know honda do fantastic Autos especially the civic and the older jazz, but then toyota in my experience has been awfull.
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    Borg Warner make nice autoboxes.

    Rebuilt and upgraded boxes from 60's / 70's Chevys are pretty good too - the turbo hydramatic range.
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    (Original post by Sync)
    We've got five cars, all of which are autos. So, you can see where our allegiance lies. But, our Golf 1.6 automatic is frankly shocking. The box is just awful and combined with the stupidly long delay on the throttle caused by the drive-by-wire, it's bordering on dangerous. We bought it as a runaround, so it's not really too big a deal. But if it was our only/main car, then I'd be pretty pissed.

    By contrast, our other autos (three V8s and a straight six) are all excellent. In my experience, autos in small engined cars seem to suck. If (for some horrible reason) my main car ever has to be sub 2.0L, I'll go manual.
    I drove an Auto astra hire car after my Renault was scrapped while looking for a new car and I have to say I was very impressed. It was the 1.8 model, pretty quick actually .l I really think it varies on the make, a mate of mine who knows about vauxhalls said that the auto in the 1.6 astra is complete rubbish and is a different type.

    I
 
 
 
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