Oxford wants to be a private uni...your thoughts!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article6689637.ece

They say they'd have to become a private university, not recieve government funding and have their own (much higher) tuition fees in order to maintain their position in the world's top 5 and compete with harvard. What are your thoughts on this?
Also, would it mean that it will only be for rich people? :confused:

If the tuition fees are similar to that of Harvard (tens of thousands) will the government provide loans of such a great quantity to students?

Reply 1

ColdVein

13

C++Hacker

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article6689637.ece

They say they'd have to become a private university, not recieve government funding and have their own (much higher) tuition fees in order to maintain their position in the world's top 5 and compete with harvard. What are your thoughts on this?
Also, would it mean that it will only be for rich people? :confused:

If the tuition fees are similar to that of Harvard (tens of thousands) will the government provide loans of such a great quantity to students?

Not likely, but the uni would offer much larger scholarships and bursaries

Reply 2

inksplodge

17

Fair enough - if they want to compete with the likes of Harvard then they should be able to. Wouldn't this mean only the rich kids get to go, though? :tongue:

Having said that I'm of the opinion better unis should be able to charge more in tuition fees.

Reply 3

hobnob

14

That's not news. They've been threatening to go private for years.

Reply 4

34253

2

I would have thought that much of the UKs universities are owned by the government?

Reply 5

.ACS.

19

I think it's a good idea... but it'll take a long time before anything like this actually happens. The reality of things is that if Oxford and Cambridge really want to compete, then they'll have to invest a lot more. Higher education isn't cheap, especially if you want to be at the cutting-edge.

The only way to prevent this from happening would be to increase tuition fees to say £10,000... but to be free from political influence, I think places like Oxford and Cambridge would still opt to go private.

Reply 6

.ACS.

19

Elipsis

I would have thought that much of the UKs universities are owned by the government?

At the moment, all but one are. Oxford and Cambridge want to break away, with nearly every other Russell Group and 1994 Group university calling for a raise in tuition fees.

Reply 7

Pulkpull

10

.ACS.

At the moment, all but one are. Oxford and Cambridge want to break away, with nearly every other Russell Group and 1994 Group university calling for a raise in tuition fees.

The rector of Imperial has also stated the same intentions as Oxbridge with regards going private.

Reply 8

0404343m

17

Hood is talking not for the here and now, but for 20 years plus down the line. If they could, I don't see why not- it'd free up more money for everyone else. In reality, only Oxbridge have the might to raise that sort of cash from endowments- while a few others could get away with charging higher fees, they simply don't have the donator network to sustain a large endowment fund in order to shake off state funding. Most private (and some state) universities in America have at least several billion dollars of an endowment to invest, by contrast, outside of Oxford and Cambridge's combined £9 billion (still half of Harvard's figure), only five other UK universities break the £100m mark- Edinburgh, Manchester, Glasgow, UCL and KCL. They'd all need to quadruple that figure plus make significant returns on how they invest it to even think of reducing their dependency on the state.

It's debateable the effect this will have on students. Arguably, standards will slip based on those who can afford to pay. But the much larger scholarships could attract some very talented students that might be financially better off applying to Oxbridge, and perhaps redressing the balance (I don't see Oxford doing it but Cambridge not). In addition, the better funding available for the rest of the Russell/1994 group etc might see them improving relative to other countries aswell, making it perhaps a win-win situation. At any rate, this won't happen any time soon, so I suppose the point is moot for at least the next VC's term.

Reply 9

34253

2

.ACS.

At the moment, all but one are. Oxford and Cambridge want to break away, with nearly every other Russell Group and 1994 Group university calling for a raise in tuition fees.

I can't for the life of me work out how they don't turn a profit... they have 50% foreign students who all pay extortionate amounts to come to the uni. Then they have arts students like myself who pay £3k for a library card. The only expensive courses are the science based ones and they pull in millions of pounds per year in research money.

These are supposed to be the smartest people in the world and they can't even make a university work when they only have hundreds of millions of pounds to spend per year, what's going on?!

Reply 10

Phalanges

18

C++Hacker

Also, would it mean that it will only be for rich people? :confused:

If the tuition fees are similar to that of Harvard (tens of thousands) will the government provide loans of such a great quantity to students?

I think places like Harvard have a lot more scholarships and bursaries to widen access to those who get in on merit but can't afford it, so I'd imagine a similar thing would happen with any University going private in this country.

Reply 11

whiplash

10

Elipsis

I can't for the life of me work out how they don't turn a profit... they have 50% foreign students who all pay extortionate amounts to come to the uni. Then they have arts students like myself who pay £3k for a library card. The only expensive courses are the science based ones and they pull in millions of pounds per year in research money.

These are supposed to be the smartest people in the world and they can't even make a university work when they only have hundreds of millions of pounds to spend per year, what's going on?!

Your university should publish a balance sheet on its website detailing the income from fees, endowments, research grants etc and spending in running costs/research etc.

Reply 12

34253

2

whiplash

Your university should publish a balance sheet on its website detailing the income from fees, endowments, research grants etc and spending in running costs/research etc.

They probably do lol.

Reply 13

ilovesownak

I would assume that international feepayers, such as myself, would not complain about increased tuition fees as a result of privatisation since they would probably resemble the fees already paid by non-home students. Oxford already has access schemes set up for families earning under the average income, don't they? People in these situations would continue to be accomodated, if not more, if the university were to move further and further away from relying on government funding. If anything, it could lead to a 'fairer' admissions process - not to say that this occurs at Oxford, but at other institutions it has been hinted at. With the current system, if two more or less identical candidates are compared with only one place to be offered, international fee payers may be selected due to need for funds, or alternatively local students may be picked to fill government-supported quotas. 'Going private' would presumably eradicate the problem of fund necessity or government control over who is accepted.

Not that I know an awful lot about this... just a few thoughts.

I give not a shizz

Lafin23

I think it's a pity, but I'm not surprised that this course of action has been raised as a possibility.

Frankly, I'd rather pay higher fees and attend a university where I know I'm among others who have also been selected merely on merit than pay lower fees, knowing that there are probably numerous students who only got in because they came from a state school, even though they might well have been worse candidates than their competition from the private sector.

Eh, how does that one work? Surely if the fees quadrupled then you'd only be amongst folk who could afford to pay, rather than selected on merit? Oxford have already said they're not going to meet the govt quota of state schooled students, as that may involve positive discrimination, and they're looking for the best students, wherever they may be. If the scholarships weren't massive, then you'd be amongst a pool of people happy to pay £14k a year in fees, rather than those who are good enough. Your thinking is somewhat backward here, I'm afraid.

Reply 16

TomTeeTom

12

As long as i don't get charged the raised tuition fees :smile:

Reply 17

belle_xx

7

The reality is, most of the students at Oxford are from public schools anyway, apart from the token few people from state schools which they are forced to take. This infuriates them. Why is Oxford's preference for people from more privileged backgrounds such a revelation? To be honest, it's always been pretty damn obvious that they want the university to primarily be a club for the elite in society. Oxford lecturers have proclaimed themselves that the main thing they go by when choosing candidates for the interview is their own test, the criteria for which are incredibly vague. Everything they have always done smacks of their fervent desire to be an independent establishment.

Reply 18

0404343m

17

belle_xx

The reality is, most of the students at Oxford are from public schools anyway, apart from the token few people from state schools which they are forced to take. This infuriates them. Why is Oxford's preference for people from more privileged backgrounds such a revelation? To be honest, it's always been pretty damn obvious that they want the university to primarily be a club for the elite in society. Oxford lecturers have proclaimed themselves that the main thing they go by when choosing candidates for the interview is their own test, the criteria for which are incredibly vague. Everything they have always done smacks of their fervent desire to be an independent establishment.

Wrong, about 55% are from state schools.

Reply 19

brianbl

Lafin23

Frankly, I'd rather pay higher fees and attend a university where I know I'm among others who have also been selected merely on merit than pay lower fees, knowing that there are probably numerous students who only got in because they came from a state school, even though they might well have been worse candidates than their competition from the private sector.

The problem is those from "the private sector" are normally better then their competition because they recevied better teaching, more focus and resources then their state school peers. Whereas those from the State sector who are intelluctually blessed but may of been subjected to poor standards of education, large class sizes and a lack of resources should be left out in the cold?

Illogical and infact completely against the notion of meritocracy which you seem to uphold. Those who have been given every help and those who haven't should be judged on the same standards? Irrespective that the latter have proven to flourish in even the most dire of situations, which we could quite easily speculate those with priviledge would of never succeeded in?

Complete ********, IMO.

Oxford wants to be a private uni...your thoughts!

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