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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    The premise of your post is that bodyweight abdominal exercises are pointless. I gave you several examples of people with excellent reputations who do not believe that.And are going by more than opinion . They did it and got the t-shirt at the highest levels of bodybuilding.

    Arnold endorses crunches in his later edition of his encyclopedia because he accepts the opinion of various sport scientists that they are safer for the average joe than situps and it's variations, but he still stands by large reps of leg raises. The earlier one had incline situps and legraises as well as the roman chair. Those exercises were more suitable for past bodybuilders many of whom had powerlifting backgrounds so had very strong backs. So their backs could take the stress.

    If my arguments are flawed yours are dire!
    The OP isn't a pro bodybuilder (that's why he needs to ask what a crunch looks like). He doesn't need to train like a pro bodybuilder (and regardless, any pro bodybuilder with any success will tell you that heavy squats and deadlifts are a far greater component of their success than specific ab work).

    Anyway, I was talking about crunches. Saying that a particular bodyweight exercise, other than a crunch, is good doesn't tell against my position that crunches are a waste of time for most trainees.
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    (Original post by Vivisteiner)
    Do them on an exercise ball at least. Much better.
    You remind me of bald men with Van Dyke beards "coaching" athletes who desperately need to get stronger, who are seated on a Swiss ball doing alternate dumbbell presses with 3 lb. chrome dumbbells.
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    (Original post by RawJoh1)
    That's why I recommended heavy work that will strengthen your core. If you don't think heavy deadlifts and heavy squats strengthen your core, then I don't know what I can say to you.
    You disregarded, out of hand, doing crunches. That is your fail. The OP didn't say they used a gym, understood proper form or wanted to alter an existing workout - they asked about crunches which you rubbished. Crunches require no equipment and are excellent at what they are there for. There are many more people with strong core muscles from crunches and pilates than from heavy squats. You are a gym bunny and evidently just diss anyone who isn't hurling iron around - your reply showed that.
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    (Original post by Mark Rippetoe)
    You remind me of bald men with Van Dyke beards "coaching" athletes who desperately need to get stronger, who are seated on a Swiss ball doing alternate dumbbell presses with 3 lb. chrome dumbbells.
    Lol, I have a full head of hair thank you very much.

    You remind me of a stereotypical bodybuilder.
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    (Original post by Vivisteiner)
    Lol, I have a full head of hair thank you very much.

    You remind me of a stereotypical bodybuilder.
    You call me a bodybuilder one more time and I'm gonna hit ya so hard, yer kids'll be borned dizzy.
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    (Original post by Mark Rippetoe)
    You call me a bodybuilder one more time and I'm gonna hit ya so hard, yer kids'll be borned dizzy.
    Bodybuilder.


    Now hit me. :p:
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    (Original post by Vivisteiner)
    Bodybuilder.


    Now hit me. :p:
    How bigaboy are ya?
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    (Original post by Mark Rippetoe)
    How bigaboy are ya?
    8 inches
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    (Original post by ProStacker)
    You disregarded, out of hand, doing crunches. That is your fail. The OP didn't say they used a gym, understood proper form or wanted to alter an existing workout - they asked about crunches which you rubbished. Crunches require no equipment and are excellent at what they are there for. There are many more people with strong core muscles from crunches and pilates than from heavy squats. You are a gym bunny and evidently just diss anyone who isn't hurling iron around - your reply showed that.
    I rubbished crunches, because, for 99% of trainees, they are rubbish. Hell, I even explained why they're rubbish in my first post. If I was a gym monkey, why would I have recommended a bodyweight circuit for the OP. Jesus ...
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    (Original post by RawJoh1)
    I rubbished crunches, because, for 99% of trainees, they are rubbish.
    Suggest you ask a grown up who is qualified to make such a statement.
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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    Arnold would disagree,see encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding especially the previous edition , So would most the old school bodybuilders including my boss who won his class in a Mr Universe .And the reason he won/lost was his Abs , because it was his best bodypart and everything else with his main rival was pretty much even. He would spend two hours a day on them before a contest. I have seen pics of them and they were truly amazing. But back then it wasn't crunches but situps, situps on slant boards, leg raises, leg raises on slant boards, roman chair situps and all the manner of different angles . But some of those fell out of favour because some less fitter people who didn't have strong cores like bodybuilders got bad backs.So the crunch was a replacement. Just for reference my boss's back is fine .

    I would believe them.rather than you or some idiot with a sports science degree. The experts are the bodybuilders and they have experience that no degree or opinion can match. There is no doubt that there is more too decent abs than just ab exercises, but it is an important component in my opinion.
    The biggest problem here is you're talking about world class bodybuilders and how they train, when in fact what we've got here is a completely untrained teenager just looking to tone up for his holidays.

    In this instance what is going to make the greatest difference is lowering his bodyfat percentage, by eating better and/or exercising more. Everyone has a sixpack, it's just sheathed in fat. Lower your bodyfat percentage low enough and it will show, far quicker than focusing solely on bodyweight abs exercises which burn very little calories (= crap for fat loss) and offer very little resistance (= crap for hypertrophy).

    If crunches and situps were that great/efficient at building a six pack why is it that the vast majority of people who do them don't in fact have a six pack (and they're a long way off).

    (Original post by ProStacker)
    You fail. Crunches are a far better and safer way of developing core muscles than something like sit ups. Core muscles are essential and nothing to do with heavy weights.
    Crunches are in fact a very poor way of developing core strength. Why? You're training one muscle (ie; rectus abdominus) and neglecting all of the other musculature of your core, this results in muscle imbalances, posture problems, greater susceptibility to injury, etc.

    A better way of developing core strength is actually by training all of your core muscles at once, for example, to stabilise a heavy load.

    If core strength has nothing to do with heavy weights go and look at powerlifters, strongmen, etc, I will bet you that they have a far stronger core than any crunch monkey you're likely to meet.
 
 
 
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