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    (Original post by zippyRN)

    Agenda for change is a wonderful system unfortunately the trusts were allowed to pervert it and arbitralily downgrade, demote and move peopel out of speciality thanks to 'skill mix reviews' that were triggered by staff being banded 'wrongly' in the eyes of the bean counters, despite the hype and flannel put across by certain people this has resulted in a diminished service and the loss of a personnel to other jobs diminishing services further
    I think in that case you're working in the wrong trust because I can assure the service is nothing like that where I have done my training.


    (Original post by ZippyRN)
    the only way to improve nursing is to sack a significant proportion of RNs currently in practice because they are unwilling or unable to develop the service and/or are so *****y and backstabbing that their bullying behaviours drive significant numbers of staff to illness or worse ( e.g. suicide as happened in a trust i worked for )
    Or perhaps because there are people like you who are so cynical and fail to see any good in the service that they work for and constantly moan about what is wrong with it, rather than striving to make it a better profession for yourself and others. Claiming that problems in the workplace lead a staff member to commit suicide may not be the whole truth - that staff member may have been unhappy initially and problems/unhappiness in her job only made her unhappiness worse. Obviously I do not know this staff member but it is likely there were a number of other factors involved in that situation. You make it seem as though someone committed suicide simply because of bullying behaviours at work.
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    (Original post by smilee172)
    You make it seem as though someone committed suicide simply because of bullying behaviours at work.

    or even worse...because they were a nurse


    :yikes:


    /sarcasm
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    or even worse...because they were a nurse


    :yikes:


    /sarcasm
    yeh, agreed!
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    bullying at work does lead to suicides, especially when it is systemic !
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    bullying at work does lead to suicides, especially when it is systemic !
    it doesn't lead to suicides. It may be a contributing factor in the driving force behind a suicide, but it does not 'lead to suicides'. Unless of course you've got something to back that up!
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    (Original post by smilee172)
    it doesn't lead to suicides. It may be a contributing factor in the driving force behind a suicide, but it does not 'lead to suicides'. Unless of course you've got something to back that up!
    when you've actually worked in the NHS for more than 5 minutes and have taken charge of a clinical area for more than 2 minutes, come back and tell me that the bullying in the NHS is not systemic and the pressure people are put under by those who are meant to be helping them isn't a direct cause of a significant number of mental health problems within clinicla staff...
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    Aha, now I understand what you're getting at! I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful to you but now you've given bit of an explanation to what you said originally it's given it a slightly different (positive) light. Although, I may disagree with how you express yourself about it all, I guess you've been there and done it before me - and I may end up the same! Although I seriously hope I don't or I'd have to change careers I think.

    I've also noticed the constant battle between 'clinical' and 'non-clinical' staff and it's usually the latter who always wins the game. One of the PCTs I work for has just got a new CEO, so no doubt there will be changes made to everything - which is sometimes a little annoying.

    at the moment it is as all the promises are empty , thanks to the traditionally trained muppets that make up the majority of NHS nursing managers and their utter inability to support and develop staff, learn when to say no to lay managers and their culture inculcation to defer to Doctors
    Interestingly I feel the same, I work in a small community hospital which although has visiting medical staff during the day (inpatients, outpatients and theatre), is really nurse-led. Now wouldn't training some, if not a large number of staff up to nurse practitioner/prescriber or even consultant level be the logical solution/idea/innovation (<- a favourite word the NHS like to use!), no? Well the fact is, in the entire hospital, there is ONE nurse practitioner. And this NP funded herself to do the training. She's been in nursing for 23 years and said if the dog at the top isn't enthusiastic about education or is traditionally trained then the likelihood of training up the nursing staff to complement/deputise from the medical staff is very little or no hope at all really. I do think you've 'hit the nail on the head' there because I've only ever noticed perhaps 1 or 2 really good and enthused (for the right reasons) managers within the NHS (from having worked with or for 5/6 departments in various trusts). Fortunately she's now got a ward sister post and is starting to enrol all her nurses on cannulation courses for example, small steps to 'upping' the standard of care. However, she says that she is facing a lot of unwillingness and barriers from 'management'...

    the only way to improve nursing is to sack a significant proportion of RNs currently in practice because they are unwilling or unable to develop the service and/or are so *****y and backstabbing that their bullying behaviours drive significant numbers of staff to illness or worse ( e.g. suicide as happened in a trust i worked for )
    I'm not over the top nor selfish/disrespectful to get to where I want to get to, but I've experienced some unwillingness and negativity from (experienced) staff who I work with (but only a few). When I had my independent personal review or whatever you call them, I said to my manager that's how I felt about some of the people I work with - the response I got was just try to ignore them - as though they would just disappear! Unlikely! I think unless you've got transparent management with an open agenda, you'll always get *****ing unfortunately...

    I agree with you that I think this government has used/using the NHS as it's striker (in terms of football) on the political playing field. Although, this may seem frustrating I hopefully won't let it deter me from where I'd like to get too. zippyRN where do you work or do you have a career plan now having had 8 years on the job?

    Do you think it would be a good idea to re-instate ENs (enrolled nurses - nurses who only did 2 out of the 3 years of training - a role which used to exist in the NHS but there is still quite a high number of ENs working in the NHS - for the lay or new people around here)? Saying that, hasn't the nursing profession been trying to do this by regulating HCAs? Should they be regulated by the NMC, HPC or employers (i.e. individual trusts) self-regulating their own support staff?...What's your take on HCAs?

    Lastly...

    Smilee172 has picked up on a good point there zippyRN about your cynicism and negativity. Although it's no one's place to tell you what to do.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    when you've actually worked in the NHS for more than 5 minutes and have taken charge of a clinical area for more than 2 minutes, come back and tell me that the bullying in the NHS is not systemic and the pressure people are put under by those who are meant to be helping them isn't a direct cause of a significant number of mental health problems within clinicla staff...
    Be nice. zippyRN you appear to like to use/abuse your power and control (of being trained) quite a bit, don't you? I agree with smilee172 actually and however much you may see it happen around you - you cannot generalise suicide like that based on your individual experience/perception from working within the NHS (no matter how long you've worked in it) - and in your case it seems like you've based that assumption on the ONE suicide that happened in the trust you work for. Although I'm not doubting the conditions nursing staff get put under is very difficult, which of course may or will contribute to someone's state of mental health.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    when you've actually worked in the NHS for more than 5 minutes and have taken charge of a clinical area for more than 2 minutes, come back and tell me that the bullying in the NHS is not systemic and the pressure people are put under by those who are meant to be helping them isn't a direct cause of a significant number of mental health problems within clinicla staff...
    Your attitude absolutely stinks. I see you feel you are for more superior than anyone else in this forum thanks to your 8 years of practising, but I can assure you you are not.
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    (Original post by Roo90)
    Be nice. zippyRN you appear to like to use/abuse your power and control (of being trained) quite a bit, don't you? I agree with smilee172 actually and however much you may see it happen around you - you cannot generalise suicide like that based on your individual experience/perception from working within the NHS (no matter how long you've worked in it) - and in your case it seems like you've based that assumption on the ONE suicide that happened in the trust you work for. Although I'm not doubting the conditions nursing staff get put under is very difficult, which of course may or will contribute to someone's state of mental health.
    you said it well, that's exactly it - 'may contribute to someone's mental health', not be the cause of. T
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    (Original post by Roo90)
    <snip> (no matter how long you've worked in it) - and in your case it seems like you've based that assumption on the ONE suicide that happened in the trust you work for. Although I'm not doubting the conditions nursing staff get put under is very difficult, which of course may or will contribute to someone's state of mental health.

    suicide in the trust i work for , plus a number of staff long term sick due to bullying for various physical and mental health problems.

    a nurse friend at the other end of the country had a suicide attempt and Mental health admission and reports a similar pattern of other less serious but still resulting in time lost health problems in others,

    union regional officers confirm a similar pattern ...
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    (Original post by Roo90)
    <snip>
    Do you think it would be a good idea to re-instate ENs (enrolled nurses - nurses who only did 2 out of the 3 years of training - a role which used to exist in the NHS but there is still quite a high number of ENs working in the NHS - for the lay or new people around here)?

    it's a retrograde step -professional nursing task and the supervision of HCAs needs a properly educated and fully prepared for practice Professional, not a be cheapened version ..

    Saying that, hasn't the nursing profession been trying to do this by regulating HCAs? Should they be regulated by the NMC, HPC or employers (i.e. individual trusts) self-regulating their own support staff?...What's your take on HCAs?

    HCAs are great are long as they remember

    1. the limitations of their role

    2. the fact they need to report things to Qualified staff AND make a record of their findings

    3. an RN regardless of how long they have been registered or have worked in the clinical area is a Supervisor of HCAs

    4. to pull their weight when it comes to things everyone in the team can do
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    I'd like to either go into the community/ or work in A&E/ ICU on a surgical ward or actually being a nurse that actually goes into surgery or whatever. One of my friends the other week was talking about how one of her nursing friends went into the raf and they actually fly soilders (injured obviously) back home but treating them on the way and stuff.
    I so don't want to go into geriatric nursing on the wards though =\ which will probably end up happening depending on what careers are like when you graduate.
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    Well, we've got an aging population so it may be hard to avoid older patients. Most of the people in acute settings are of the older generation.

    I've heard that about the RAF too - sounds exciting!
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    Indeed I don't mind dealing with them say in small practice GP places but big huge wards are just like eurgh to me, in saying that though I probably find it boring due to not being able to do medication rounds or interesting stuff like the nurses do. roll on the next 2 years.
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    (Original post by Enchanté)
    I'd like to either go into the community/ or work in A&E/ ICU on a surgical ward or actually being a nurse that actually goes into surgery or whatever. One of my friends the other week was talking about how one of her nursing friends went into the raf and they actually fly soilders (injured obviously) back home but treating them on the way and stuff.
    I so don't want to go into geriatric nursing on the wards though =\ which will probably end up happening depending on what careers are like when you graduate.
    I saw an article the other day where it had a picture of the inside of an RAF aeroplane and some soldiers being treated by nurses, it looked really interesting, definitely an exciting career path to take!
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    suicide in the trust i work for , plus a number of staff long term sick due to bullying for various physical and mental health problems.
    It sounds from what you're saying, that the staff that have been bullied long term have been bullied due to pre-existing mental health problems. So either you have worded it badly, or these individuals already had mental health problems, which totally negates your point.
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    (Original post by smilee172)
    I saw an article the other day where it had a picture of the inside of an RAF aeroplane and some soldiers being treated by nurses, it looked really interesting, definitely an exciting career path to take!

    I considered the army, for a long time, and wanted to go into it as a nurse etc, shopped around and found out i couldn't due to being an asthmatic (even though my triggers aren't excercise!!)

    I was reallly gutted, still am if i'm honest
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    Indeed the RAF thing sounds rather exciting, my career choice in nursing is constantly changing though because there's so many things you can do. I don't think I would join the RAF as soon as i've qualified to be honest i'd rather leave that till later in life (although they only accept up to the age of 49) I'd rather do some other forms of nursing first and family and stuff bwaha. I do wanna gets loads of different experiences though.:p:
    It;s like on my last placement there was a nurse who had been on the same ward for 25 years. :eek: and hated it I was just like why? you could have gone into something else care wise in the nursing field. but she just couldn't be botthered.

    I so want to go to a place/ward that keeps you on your toes though.
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    (Original post by Enchanté)
    Indeed the RAF thing sounds rather exciting, my career choice in nursing is constantly changing though because there's so many things you can do. I don't think I would join the RAF as soon as i've qualified to be honest i'd rather leave that till later in life (although they only accept up to the age of 49) I'd rather do some other forms of nursing first and family and stuff bwaha. I do wanna gets loads of different experiences though.:p:

    so much to do, such little time!

    I just want to pass first year hehe
 
 
 
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