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Socialism has never worked in any country and at any time in history watch

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    Some elements of socialism work very well indeed. No society can do without it.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Ever been?
    To cuba, nah, but it seems okay from reading about it and watching documentaries. If I'm wrong I would genuinely like to learn about it.
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    (Original post by Snookercraze)
    Did it not work with the USSR? They were a force to be reckoned with during the Cold War era.
    Militarily maybe. But in the meantime, ordinary people would have to form a mile long line to buy a new broom head.
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    (Original post by T-o dore)
    No! It lasted a long time, but under the ruthless hands of Lenin and Stalin it brought the deaths of millions (R Conquest says 20 million under Stalin alone). In its destructive and unconstructive nature, and in the fact that the Marxist utopia was never achieved, socialism failed in the USSR. One could argue, moreover, that it was never really imposed, as Stalin/Krushchev/Lenin's reigns were probably more autocratic than the Tsars had been before them.
    Ofcourse it was ruthless and innocent lives were lost; but we have to remember that this was a dictatorship. Let's not forget Hitler's Germany was not socialist and many indigenous lives were lost.

    We are talking about socialism as an economic policy and, no doubt, that economically, socialism did wonders for the USSR.
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    The Nazis did describe themselves as National Socialists (advertising it quite a lot in their early days). That said, I'm not saying that the USSR didn't improve under Stalin (and others) in some areas, nor that places such as Venezuela didn't see worse times.
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    (Original post by Snookercraze)
    Ofcourse it was ruthless and innocent lives were lost; but we have to remember that this was a dictatorship. Let's not forget Hitler's Germany was not socialist and many indigenous lives were lost.

    We are talking about socialism as an economic policy and, no doubt, that economically, socialism did wonders for the USSR.
    Hitler's Germany was socialist.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Militarily maybe. But in the meantime, ordinary people would have to form a mile long line to buy a new broom head.
    I think the situation during the Tsar Nicholas' era was a lot more grim than it was under Lenin and Stalin.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Hitler's Germany was socialist.
    By name.
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    (Original post by T-o dore)
    To cuba, nah, but it seems okay from reading about it and watching documentaries. If I'm wrong I would genuinely like to learn about it.
    I know someone who was reported by a cab driver for slandering Castro, this was in the mid 90s. He was beaten up by police and sent home. Sounds lovely.
    But apart from this I've only heard good things.

    Btw is that Chris Liley in your avatar? The guy's a ******* pisser:yes:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Hitler's Germany was socialist.
    The term corporatist is probably more apt, since Hitler effectively ran a state that combined the interests of heavy industry with one that promoted a racial ideology.

    Plus they permitted the ownership of private businesses, and did not favour equality of income, and indeed criticised class struggle as a threat to racial unity.
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    (Original post by Reaver)
    I know someone who was reported by a cab driver for slandering Castro, this was in the mid 90s. He was beaten up by police and sent home. Sounds lovely.
    But apart from this I've only heard good things.

    Btw is that Chris Liley in your avatar? The guy's a ******* pisser:yes:
    What has this to do with socialism? This is a result of a dictatorship, not socialism.
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    (Original post by T-o dore)
    So you base 'success' on the average wage? Surely the fact that the wages have indeed been universalized means that the socialist principle has worked? I saw a documentary about the country and people in general seem contented, although I certainly would not want to live there.
    YES.

    The socialist principle, where it is better that everyone is poorer but with a small gap in income equality, than richer but with a larger gap in income equality, certainly HAS worked.

    This is so apt.

    Socialists would rather the poor were poorer provided the rich were less rich.

    It doesn't mean they were contented compared to how they would otherwise be had they followed less socialist policies, though.
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    (Original post by Snookercraze)
    By name.
    In practice too.

    Also Mussolini’s fascism was a state socialism that was explicitly anti-Marx and aggressively nationalistic. Hitler just intensified this really.
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    (Original post by Snookercraze)
    I think the situation during the Tsar Nicholas' era was a lot more grim than it was under Lenin and Stalin.
    Not really the point.
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    (Original post by PGtips92)
    Why don't socialists move there if it worked so well? They don't becaause it hasn't: thousands of Cubans escape to the US, not the other way round.

    Cuba's wages used to be among the world's highest.[5] According to International Labor Organization, the average industrial salary in Cuba was the world's 8th highest - $6 US dollars per 8-hour work day in 1958. [16] 62% of those employed lived on less than $75 a month, whereas today almost everyone lives on about $20 a month.

    Wikipedia; interesting to read the "History". It seems that Cuba was becoming very successful until the communist / socialist regime started.



    You sir are retarded. Of course their wages are going to be lower, it's a communist state!
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    (Original post by Snookercraze)
    What has this to do with socialism? This is a result of a dictatorship, not socialism.
    I wasn't commenting on socialism, just on Cuba generally.
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    (Original post by Reaver)
    In practice too.

    Also Mussolini’s fascism was a state socialism that was explicitly anti-Marx and aggressively nationalistic. Hitler just intensified this really.
    As far as I can recall from my history lessons, Hitler slandered socialism and it's policies.

    Here is a great article to prove my point:

    http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/10/3...-socialism.htm
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    (Original post by Reaver)
    I wasn't commenting on socialism, just on Cuba generally.
    :cool:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Not really the point.
    My point is that under the Tsars, people who advocated capitalism, Russia was not in a better position.
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    I personally believe Socialism could work if we worked hard enough to make it work...

    But our generation and previous ones are obviously accepting of the capitalist system, so how do you expect people to be open to the idea of giving up riches for something that seems fallacious (Social Equality). Society is based upon meritocracy.. Maybe if we slowly eased into the ideas of socialism in an evolutionary way it could work but revolutionary tactics can cause problems, obviously...
 
 
 
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