Panic Attacks - Breathing into a Paper Bag?

excessive breathing leads to low levels of carbon dioxide in your blood, which causes many of the symptoms that you may feel if you hyperventilate. if you want to increase your carbon dioxide, you need to take in less oxygen.

to do this, you can breath through pursed lips (e.g. like blowing out a candle) or you can cover your mouth and one nostril, breathing through the other nostril.

breathing through a paper bag is NO LONGER RECOMMENDED because this can quickly lead to too much carbon dioxide in your blood stream

Reply 5

Debussy

1

timeofyourlife

excessive breathing leads to low levels of carbon dioxide in your blood, which causes many of the symptoms that you may feel if you hyperventilate. if you want to increase your carbon dioxide, you need to take in less oxygen.

to do this, you can breath through pursed lips (e.g. like blowing out a candle) or you can cover your mouth and one nostril, breathing through the other nostril.

breathing through a paper bag is NO LONGER RECOMMENDED because this can quickly lead to too much carbon dioxide in your blood stream

ooh... i didn't know it wasn't recommended anymore... its a sound idea in theory though

Reply 6

it's particularly not recommended in people that have respiratory problems and a lot of older people, blowing into a paper bag has been known to cause respiratory acidosis. for general healthy people, i'd probably still give people a paper bag myself though.

Reply 7

Debussy

1

timeofyourlife

it's particularly not recommended in people that have respiratory problems and a lot of older people, blowing into a paper bag has been known to cause respiratory acidosis. for general healthy people, i'd probably still give people a paper bag myself though.

ah, that makes more sense... thank you..

Reply 8

SammyD

7

Where would you get a paper bag from nowadays anyway? They're all plastic, by the time I'd found a paper bag the patient would probably be dead.

Reply 9

blissy

15

SammyD

Where would you get a paper bag from nowadays anyway? They're all plastic, by the time I'd found a paper bag the patient would probably be dead.

Pharmacies :biggrin:

starbucks

you get too much oxygen when you hyperventilate. makes you go funny. paper bag stops this. someone prob already said that tho.

Reply 12

Debussy

1

Lozza

you get too much oxygen when you hyperventilate. makes you go funny. paper bag stops this. someone prob already said that tho.

nope, you get too little carbon dioxide... they're sorta related though so, you're kinda right

Reply 13

RetiredAccount89

Alcohol5%

What's the deal with that, how does it help calm you down?

When you breath you breath in oxygen, and breath out carbon dioxide. When someone has a panic attack (in many panic attacks anyway - cos some panic attacks take a different form) they start breathing too fast which means too much carbon dioxide is 'blown off'. Oxygen is at about 99% saturation in your blood normally anyway so increased breathing doesnt raise that.
This leads to changes in blood acid-base balance which in turn cause symptoms like dizziness, confusion, fatigue, pounding heart etc. (low co2 causes constriction of blood vessels incl those in brain hence causing the dizzyness, headache etc, also a decreased co2 will prevent the bosy making use of the bohr effect - something which naturally ensures more o2 gets into high o2 consumption organs - hence why you get fatigue).

The ways to reverse this are obvious - breath slower and deeper, or breath air with a higher concentration of co2. hence why we try to calm a panic attack patient down and get them to breath using abdo muscles plus counting exercises (encourages slow deep breathing) and/or breathing into their cupped hands or a paper bag.

And yes, its perfectly safe and infact ideal to use the paper bag. You won't get respiratory acidosis unless you have underlying lung disease - something most people who suffer panic attacks don't have.
And even in those with lung disease, raised CO2 is not contraindicated - they have after all usually lost alot of their sensitivity to it. Its the effect of lower inspired o2 thats worrysome in thse patients (but has no effect in a normal person having a panic attack).

moral is if someone suddenly starts breathing fast and shallow, looks usnteady on their feet and panicky, then its prob a panic attack and you are prob best sitting them down, talking to them calmly, do breathing exercises with them, and if they still aren't slowing down then give them a bag. So long as they hold the bag its fine.

Reply 14

Sarky

Having suffered from panic attacks in the past, i could have done with a paper bag. Instead i had this silly nurse in my face blowing air at me. And she had bad breath. And i wasn't in labour despite what people around me probably thought! (Because of her panting at me not because i had a pregnant belly or because i was screaming the place down). Panic? I did. (Thats my yoda impression). I used to have to carry a paper bag around with me everywhere in case i had one in public but i haven't had one for about 6 months now.

God i sound like an idiot reading through my threads on H&R :redface:

Reply 15

foolfarian

And yes, its perfectly safe and infact ideal to use the paper bag.

from last year i think it's no longer recommended by the red cross/st.johns etc. to give someone a paper bag - certainly in a first aid setting, insurance won't cover you if something goes wrong.

Reply 16

nikk

15

I assume the thread starter was watching the same film as me last night :wink:

Reply 17

RetiredAccount89

timeofyourlife

from last year i think it's no longer recommended by the red cross/st.johns etc. to give someone a paper bag - certainly in a first aid setting, insurance won't cover you if something goes wrong.

anything goes wrong....with a paper bag?
haha

Trust me, you'll save many many fold more lives than you'll lose using a paper bag to help calm someones breathing...
especially if they are holding it. worst case scenario they pass out, which if they are sitting/laying and holding the bag themselves, the bag will fall away easily, and their breathing will recalibrate whilst they are unconscious to bring them back into gaseous equilibrium.

Reply 18

foolfarian

anything goes wrong....with a paper bag?
haha

i'm just saying it's no longer recommended or covered by the first aid societies, that's all! but this applies mostly for first aid duties.

Reply 19

RetiredAccount89