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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...irst-interview

    ...his first interview after his resignation.

    Is he right?

    Should Labour be making the case for immigration? Should they be tackling the issue of faith schools head on?
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    They should certainly be tackling the issue of faith schools. Amen.

    I don't think that there is a great case for levels of immigration increasing though; reasonable immigration, certainly. By no means am I even right of centre, but in order for a country to have anything resembling a culture and solidarity, we need a roughly stable population (I'm not, by the way, appealing to Morris dancers and Yorkshire puddings; our culture is of course, like everything in this transcient world of ours, always changing whilst also assimilating elements of others, which is purely natural and rarely a bad thing, but for that process to go fruitfully it needs to be at a steady, manageable pace [rather than a tempest of postmodernism leaving us with a country resembling the Tower of Babel].)
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    any person that wants to give away 0.7% if this countries hard earnt GDP instead of investing in our own future is a crazy in my eyes.

    let alone all the pro immgiration stuff, :mad:
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    (Original post by Arminius)
    any person that wants to give away 0.7% if this countries hard earnt GDP instead of investing in our own future is a crazy in my eyes.
    :rolleyes: So our GDP is more important than people's lives, whoever they may be or in whichever man-made geopolitical state they may live? That's sad.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    :rolleyes: So our GDP is more important than people's lives, whoever they may be or in whichever man-made geopolitical state they may live? That's sad.
    The government should never be in the business of giving away the nations money, however well intentioned.

    That is the businesses of charities, who people give to on a voluntary basis.

    International aid is socialism at its worst.

    The realities are clear to me that whatever money we give to the third world, they will always need more, as their population is growing at an exponential rate. They will naturally desire a greater share of the world's resources. Giving aid accelerates their growth. It is therefore self-destructive to give any help as it will only disenfranchise our children of the great inheritance that generations of our people have worked and fought so hard for.
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    (Original post by Arminius)
    The government should never be in the business of giving away the nations money, however well intentioned.

    That is the businesses of charities, who people give to on a voluntary basis.

    International aid is socialism at its worst.

    The realities are clear to me that whatever money we give to the third world, they will always need more, as their population is growing at an exponential rate. They will naturally desire a greater share of the world's resources. Giving aid accelerates their growth. It is therefore self-destructive to give any help as it will only disenfranchise our children of the great inheritance that generations of our people have worked and fought so hard for.
    Oh yes, are you one of these "invisible hand" (my god, it is invisible!), "trickle down effect" (and it's certainly trickling, not pouring!) buggers?!

    So if population growth causes problems, are you also in favour of the Malthusian idea of limiting reproduction?

    Besides, people work hard and fight for things all over the world -- there's certainly not a direct correlation between wealth and work ethic. Unless, of course, we are able to assume that the 40% of the population on $1/day or less are lazy *******s, good for nothing but shooting.
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    Interesting if over-hyped interview. Think he's probably aligned with what most of labour party are thinking at the moment. Not surprising considering its been 12 years, most people have something to be disappointed by, by now.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Oh yes, are you one of these "invisible hand" (my god, it is invisible!), "trickle down effect" (and it's certainly trickling, not pouring!) buggers?!
    Erm, no. I'm not.

    So if population growth causes problems, are you also in favour of the Malthusian idea of limiting reproduction?
    Yes, how else can humans continue to live in a finite world? population cannot grow forever.

    The chinese example is a good one, its impact on civil liberties is of course to be regretted but the chiense knew it was the only way they could secure a prosperous future for themselves and i think they will be proved right.

    We in the west already have our population under control - it is areas of the world like Bangladesh where the population is growing fastest yet they do not have the resources to support it. This should be of concern to humans all across the world.

    Besides, people work hard and fight for things all over the world -- there's certainly not a direct correlation between wealth and work ethic. Unless, of course, we are able to assume that the 40% of the population on $1/day or less are lazy *******s, good for nothing but shooting.
    Of course not, but societies that are wealthy are so for a reason. Pouring money into unsuccessful societies is like feeding rats.

    Socialists would not know this of course as they are masters of misallocating resources:rolleyes:
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    Who cares about what he has to say or about Labour? We should be in the business of discussing policies and issues in relevance to how they effect society as a whole; not by how they'll affect a given party's chance of getting into power.

    The question shouldn't be "should Labour....", it should be "should the people support......"

    As for the issues raised:

    Foreign aid - feel free to support it if you like keeping the 'third world countries in poverty'
    Faith schools - attack the source of problems, not the ever spawning end product.
    Immigration: again, attack the source - endless benefits. Cut benefits, and we'll attract the 'right' kind of immigrants who are beneficial to society.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    :rolleyes: So our GDP is more important than people's lives, whoever they may be or in whichever man-made geopolitical state they may live? That's sad.
    Would any of the third world countres we give money to EVER do the same for us in return?

    Hmmm, didn't think so.

    Let charities deal with aid, I resent the government forcing me to be a good samaritian.
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    Most aid GDP is misspent anyway. China gets some (WTF??), and African dictators just spend it on Bentley's or such like.
    If we want to fix Africa, IMO military toppling of its dictators is vital.
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Would any of the third world countres we give money to EVER do the same for us in return?

    Hmmm, didn't think so.

    Let charities deal with aid, I resent the government forcing me to be a good samaritian.
    :rofl: Nice to know that you base descisions on assumed tit-for-tat rather than consistent principles. Just because someone may treat you badly, does not mean that you cannot take the higher moral ground.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    :rofl: Nice to know that you base descisions on assumed tit-for-tat rather than consistent principles. Just because someone may treat you badly, does not mean that you cannot take the higher moral ground.
    And what of Africans who point out that aid is not working?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...363663,00.html

    But of course, we should continue to give aid since whites obviously know what's best for Africans, since they're all savages.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    And what of Africans who point out that aid is not working?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...363663,00.html

    But of course, we should continue to give aid since whites obviously know what's best for Africans, since they're all savages.
    Well, with supposed inefficiency and imperialism that's three surmountable arguments thus far! Have any more?
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    This was probably just his mini manifesto. He's one of the favourites to be leader of the Labour Party. So he's probably just seeing how the interview goes down. David Miliband did the same the other week. He said Labour should listen to the unions more. Talk about sucking up them! Who's next in the cabinet or ex cabinet to promote their mini manifesto? Outside of New Labour, John McDonnel has an all year round whinge and Jon Cruddas has his articles in the Sunday Mirror!....
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Well, with supposed inefficiency and imperialism that's three surmountable arguments thus far! Have any more?
    So you claim to know better than someone who has lived in Africa and has far more experience and knowledge of the effects of aid than you ever will?
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    So you claim to know better than someone who has lived in Africa and has far more experience and knowledge of the effects of aid than you ever will?
    Well, that's one opinion, very much on the right of the political spectrum. There are many Africans who believe in the value of well-placed aid.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Well, that's one opinion, very much on the right of the political spectrum. There are many Africans who believe in the value of well-placed aid.
    Charity begins at home. This not only applies to us but Afrcans too.

    Africa need to solve its problems, not us. Do you ever see the AU doing anything about Zimbabwe or the Congo?
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Charity begins at home. This not only applies to us but Afrcans too.

    Africa need to solve its problems, not us. Do you ever see the AU doing anything about Zimbabwe or the Congo?
    Justice is when those with the ability to act and make things better, act and make things better. It's not about "Africa" solving its problems, its about the bloody human race solving its problems. Stop erecting continental barriers in your mind.
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    (Original post by Georgecopter)
    Justice is when those with the ability to act and make things better, act and make things better.
    Well that sure as hell isn't us. We can't fix Africa, Africans can. When we Africans acting to sort out their problems then there'll be justice.
 
 
 
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