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    I've never understood how so many people are religious. I like the values of Christianity (honour thy neighbour etc.) but the whole concept of God and heaven is absurd to me. I went to Catholic school and used to be a believer. Once I started questioning things I realised I had spent my childhood being brainwashed. I'm now 100% atheist. I see evolution as fact. I don't think the world was created by a higher being although I don't believe in the big bang theory either. I'm not militant about my atheism, I'll only mention it if I'm asked.

    I don't believe in God, or spirits, or ghosts at all. I believe in Science.
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    Religion is for the weak minded, let them live their lives, some Humans are just weak tis all.
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    It's comforting, makes you feel better about life the universe and everything. Like Nationalism or Racism.
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    (Original post by katierattray)
    Religious Beliefs are a good thing, I started to believe after I had a little blip in my life and praying and having faith gave me a crutch, How can you celebrate christmas and have a blatant disregard for the whole point of that event, Its like an atheist getting married in a church. How can you say how the universe came into excistance we weren't there. Some People just need to accept that you can't explain everything in the world.

    Not always true now is it, i give to you history ...
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    (Original post by james_dow)
    Not always true now is it, i give to you history ...
    On the other hand, the Catholic Church was the sole uniting force in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire, for one swift example of the benefits of religion. :hmmm:
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    (Original post by katierattray)
    Religious Beliefs are a good thing, I started to believe after I had a little blip in my life and praying and having faith gave me a crutch, How can you celebrate christmas and have a blatant disregard for the whole point of that event, Its like an atheist getting married in a church. How can you say how the universe came into excistance we weren't there. Some People just need to accept that you can't explain everything in the world.
    Like I said religion does not make you what you are, is like having brown hair. It adds to your personality, but you shouldn't be judged on it. that would be Godist....
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    On the other hand, the Catholic Church was the sole uniting force in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire, for one swift example of the benefits of religion. :hmmm:

    touche, well of course religion has been a neccesity to the early development of our civilisation but, having said that religions benefits have ran out, were at a stable stage were the need for religion is no more humans have moved forward.

    Its time to kick it to the curb.
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    (Original post by james_dow)
    touche, well of course religion has been a neccesity to the early development of our civilisation but, having said that religions benefits have ran out, were at a stable stage were the need for religion is no more humans have moved forward.

    Its time to kick it to the curb.
    We don't need a lot of things, but to some people it's nice to think that someone out there is watching over you.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    We don't need a lot of things, but to some people it's nice to think that someone out there is watching over you.
    Like your family and friends.....

    if you don't have any, (connections)....
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    We don't need a lot of things, but to some people it's nice to think that someone out there is watching over you.
    not my argument, my argument was overall in todays society it has more negatives than positives. while it may be nice for weak minded people, it doesnt mean its helpful in terms of our progression its nothing more than a hindrance.
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    Obviously the creationists have flooded in from crazy town here. The point of science is trying to find an understanding, generally with the scientfic method an theory is produced, and it is tested with evidence and experiments, if the evidence shows the theory is wrong. Then the theory is re-written or discarded. Thus society moves forward. The big bang is a theory, with alot of powerful evidence supporting it, such as cosmic background radiation; some of Hubbles work regarding the recession of galaxies.

    The big bag theory itself doesn't neccesarily say when everything started, why it came to be etc. It's just there was a huge explosion. Some scientists believe this is a never ending process of big bang --> expansion --> collapse and crunch --> big bang bouncing back. Who knows.

    Evolution however was a theory, but is pretty much fact nowadays as it has been observed throughout the animal kingdom with fossil records of transition species. Modern examples such as superbugs and pests developing resistance to drugs and chemicals. Also through the nature of DNA replicatoin where mutations can occur by random (i.e. orders of certain base pairs). From this, the genesis argument of creation is pretty much proven wrong. Dust man and rib women (or Adam and Eve) are an impossibilty.

    No scientist will write a thoery then preach that it is correct because there isn't evidence to say it is false. They would be mocked if they even tried. Whereas religions subscribes to the logic that just because you cant disspove something, means it exists. NO, proof verifies somethings existance. Just because it can't be disproved doesn't mean it definatly exists. At least go half way and say you don't know whether god exists.

    Religion has caused so many wars, deaths, discriminatoins, genocides, segregation and misery on the world. Examples such as the Jewish discrimination throughout history of genocide of Jewish communities, by Muslims and Christians. Hatred toward homosexuals, because some book that people have no proof was written 2000 years ago hints that it is wrong. Before the Christian faith was widespread across Europe, bisexuality and homosexuality was a norm and accepted. Julius Ceaser had a husband, and many figures of ancient greece regularly had homosexual relations and nobody generally cared; it was human nature.

    Then the big theistic religions came along and seperated everyone to hate each other. Divide and conquer. It exists to control the masses and give power to the few elite. Greatest weapon ever devised and the greatest cow manure story every produced.

    Now these brainwashed mass's demand protection over their crazy beliefs. So much that Islamic states want blasphemy to be a break of human rights and the blasphemy laws passed in Ireland recently. Religion needs to be stamped out over the next century if we are to progress as a species and work together to colonise the universe. Secular society needs to occur, we are on the way but there is alot of work to do.

    tl;dr You can't prove an argument by saying you can't disprove it.
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Unfortunately for you, a point doesn't have to be 'original' to be potent.

    Perhaps when religious people have sufficiently answered the points that us rationalists have been repeating over and over for the past few centuries, we will move on to new exciting points.

    But for now, these points suffice in stopping religious reason in its tracks, and sending the pious into a confused garble of feeble excuses.
    I wasn't really aiming it at you, might I add! I found it funny the original poster was asking why religious people don't think "lolwut" at their beliefs. Well basically that person was just very ignorant, and hadn't asked many religious people. Maybe, just maybe, they aren't (all) as ridiculous as he thinks? I don't think atheism is true but I don't think it's ridiculous - I have an open enough mind to study it andunderstand the arguments in favour. Most atheists (or 'rationalists' as they apparently are, not that they normally explain why) on here just bang on about 'imaginary friends' in a typical atheist mocking tone without really knowing what they're talking about.

    Without trying to attack you, as one of the intelligent posters here, can I just ask why you really want to spend so much time on an internet forum writing about why religious people are wrong, irrational etc? I mean, isn't it a bit dull and what are you really trying to achieve? Don't be surprised if you don't convert people.
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    I read in someones sig that religion is the answer to human fear.
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    (Original post by Sex Cauldron)
    Isn't that religion in general?
    Same could apply to atheism if you're going to make that sort of comment. Atheists constantly bang on about 'rationality' and 'no evidence' without explaining why - just as if it's some objective fact. And yes I know the burden of proof is on the believer, but theists funnily enough believe there is evidence, so it's the atheist's task to prove the evidence wrong. Otherwise they're just being lazy.
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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    Because all believe God is eternal.
    first you say it isnt rational at all to believe something to 'just happen', and now youre saying god is eternal? Surely we can believe that the universe is just eternal then?
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    (Original post by MrPhil)
    I wasn't really aiming it at you, might I add! I found it funny the original poster was asking why religious people don't think "lolwut" at their beliefs. Well basically that person was just very ignorant, and hadn't asked many religious people. Maybe, just maybe, they aren't (all) as ridiculous as he thinks? I don't think atheism is true but I don't think it's ridiculous - I have an open enough mind to study it andunderstand the arguments in favour. Most atheists (or 'rationalists' as they apparently are, not that they normally explain why) on here just bang on about 'imaginary friends' in a typical atheist mocking tone without really knowing what they're talking about.

    Without trying to attack you, as one of the intelligent posters here, can I just ask why you really want to spend so much time on an internet forum writing about why religious people are wrong, irrational etc? I mean, isn't it a bit dull and what are you really trying to achieve? Don't be surprised if you don't convert people.
    I see.

    Well yes, we all share a collective dislike for the atheists who have as much intellectual procession as the die-hard theists they are attempting to refute.

    I agree that a person's duty, if they want to refute the ideas of the pious, is to first understand them, by gathering as much information as possible, and looking at them from as many different angles as possible. For me, I used philosophy, modern physics, biology, chemistry and their derivatives to refute the concepts of religion. But I used evolutionary biology, neurosciene, psychology and sociology to attempt to understand why people found these arguments compelling, where religion comes from, and how it manifests itself. I can't really say I had a decent understanding of what was going on until I had done that, and for that reason, it's difficult to trust an atheist who has not done these things. And unfortunately, that is a lot of them.

    As for me, I don't really know why I dedicate so much time to debating with theists. I believe quite strongly that religion is a ball and chain around our necks, something that is dangerous for society, something which engulfs and limits the human mind and the human understanding of the universe, and I believe that the things it offers to make up for this are either unnecessary, or can be accessed from secular sources which do not incur any such penalties.

    So I feel, that my promotion of scepticism and critical thinking could invoke positive effects in the individual and therefore in society.

    I don't think it's dull because I am extremely interested in the sociology/psychology that drives people to believe the things that they believe, and I enjoy debating in any context, so I'm not bored by it.

    And what I am trying to achieve is nothing more than to get people to think critically before accepting things, getting people to think independently, and to use their head instead of their gut where it is appropriate.

    As Thomas J. Watson (the founder of IBM) once said, "All the problems of the world would be settled easily if only men were willing to think."

    I think you should note that my campaign for rational, critical and sceptical thinking is not solely focussed on the notions of religion. Religiosity is just a symptom of the irrationality of human beings, and there are many more symptoms which go hand in hand, and I can be found launching a tirade against other such things (although they don't appear quite as often as religious debate does).

    And it is for that reason that I call myself a 'rationalist', rather than just an 'atheist'. Atheist is a subset of rationalist (at least, my type of atheism is). So when I'm arguing in politics, sociology, psychology, science, morality or such other debates, it is not fit to call myself an atheist - because it's irrelevant. It is my rationalism that drives these debates. And it is my rationalism which drives my atheist which drives this debate. The words rationalism and atheism are not interchangeable, and for some people they are not even related. But in my case, my atheist is a subset of my rationalism.

    P.S. Since I started my active debating and so on, I have actually managed to open the minds of quite a few people, who have subsequently denounced their religion, and then progressed their mind to be much more critical and rational. But like I said, religion is just a small subset of irrationality that I debate against, and if you count the number of people who I have opened the minds of in other matters of irrationality (and I do), then the tally rises much higher.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    . .. (Please don't ask me "who created God", I'm sure you know that God is believed to be existent but uncreated by theists. The argument isn't going to convice anyone).
    An answer might:

    Since you believe there must be a creation, consider that you could not even make one hair on your hear, your parents didn't create you, they were used as ingregient providers.

    Your creator is infinately more intelligent and powerful than you.
    His word is better understanding than yours.

    The physical realm was created by a physically invisible realm:-

    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Heb.11:3)

    People may scoff at believing in someone who they cannot see, but you rely on various things that you have not seen - or understood - gravity, love, cellular biochemistry, the money system, earth flying through space etc.

    God is found by those that see that what they have relied upon cannot deliver and they agree with God that they need to receive His Spirit.
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    Generally, because they are happy and getting on with their lives.

    This.


    If other people want to believe that's fine with me
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    (Original post by NJA)
    An answer might:

    Since you believe there must be a creation, consider that you could not even make one hair on your hear, your parents didn't create you, they were used as ingregient providers.

    Your creator is infinately more intelligent and powerful than you.
    His word is better understanding than yours.

    The physical realm was created by a physically invisible realm:-

    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Heb.11:3)

    People may scoff at believing in someone who they cannot see, but you rely on various things that you have not seen - or understood - gravity, love, cellular biochemistry, the money system, earth flying through space etc.

    God is found by those that see that what they have relied upon cannot deliver and they agree with God that they need to receive His Spirit.
    Sorry, that sounds all well and good, but I don't really see how it's related to anything I said

    All I was saying is that when it comes to these kinds of debates, people who don't believe in God often ask "Who created God" in an attempt to be smart, without realising that the question is self-contradictory.
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    (Original post by Ashley. P)
    first you say it isnt rational at all to believe something to 'just happen', and now youre saying god is eternal? Surely we can believe that the universe is just eternal then?
    Well you could believe that the universe itself is eternal, but then that leads to some scientific problems.
    The expansion of space itself, along with the theory of relativity both imply that time itself came into existence with the Big Bang, about 14 billion years ago (as discussed by Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking).
 
 
 
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