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    (Original post by xinjaing)
    Without Stalin, we would have ended up with a huge Nazi empire with that Austrian bugger in charge. Then they would have linked up with the Japanese and could have won the war, which is ****.
    replace could with would and you're spot on :sadnod:
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    i dont give a flying ****

    anyone else?

    hi-5
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    Stalin arguably put the Soviet Union on its feet. However, USSR's socialism system meant that all opponents to the regime had to be punished (to death in this case).
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    The ultimate tyrant.
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    All those who see Stalin as a necessary evil need a history lesson.

    Learn about the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement. Stalin only fought Hitler because Hitler betrayed him, otherwise he was very happy to share Europe with the Nazi's.

    Stalin was the scum of the earth.
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    (Original post by ScotlandStandUp)
    Likewise, he was a big man, and big men do make big mistakes, however a lot of his mistakes are unforgivable.
    You need to differentiate between mistakes and crimes.
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    (Original post by borismor)
    All those who see Stalin as a necessary evil need a history lesson.

    Learn about the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement. Stalin only fought Hitler because Hitler betrayed him, otherwise he was very happy to share Europe with the Nazi's.

    Stalin was the scum of the earth.
    Amen.:cool:
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    (Original post by Vivisteiner)
    He was a bad man, but he helped to defeat a badder man.


    Thats my advanced summary of the situation.
    You regard Hitler as a worse person than stalin? Though Hitler brings about nightmare to Europe, he helped German out from the depression very successfully and effectively. That was only achieved by president Franklin Rossevelt at the same time! Stalin kills over half of his military commanders to keep his throne safe! And that's why Russian army was flushed by the German at the first stage of the war. Hitler is a criminal, a bet loser who losed himself and German and the whole world, but he is not a foolish ruthless killer like Stalin.
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    To me, Stalin is a person who sent thousands (actually, hundreds of thousands:mad: ) of innocent people from my country to die in f****** Siberia. So I could not understand people who consider him an 'idol' ...
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    (Original post by ScotlandStandUp)
    Was a monster, a dictator who should never have dictated. Sent too many people to their deaths, before, during and after the war for his foolish 'dream'. A criminal who was scared of his own shadow, a hero? I think not.

    Do any of you regard him as the saviour of humanity or even an idol, influence or inspiration?
    without stalin, nazi germany would have taken virtually most of the world.
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    (Original post by borismor)
    All those who see Stalin as a necessary evil need a history lesson.

    Learn about the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement. Stalin only fought Hitler because Hitler betrayed him, otherwise he was very happy to share Europe with the Nazi's.

    Stalin was the scum of the earth.
    You're forgetting that Stalin industrialised Russia. Without Stalins brtual industralisation, Russia would have crumbled from invasion, no question.
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    without stalin, nazi germany would have taken virtually most of the world.
    You mean without "general winter".

    As I said, Stalin himself was more than willing to cooperate with Hitler.
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    You're forgetting that Stalin industrialised Russia. Without Stalins brtual industralisation, Russia would have crumbled from invasion, no question.
    Hitler did the same for Germany. So what?
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    (Original post by borismor)
    Hitler did the same for Germany. So what?
    Well what do you think? With Russia out of the equation (in terms of any military prowess or influence), Nazi Germany would have held Europe (including the UK) easily. Therefore I believe that Stalin and his actions were necessary, despite the utter evil which he committed on his own people. No doubt about it, he helped the Russian people to develop into what they have now (along with pretty much saving most of the western world from Nazi Germany).
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    Well what do you think? With Russia out of the equation (in terms of any military prowess or influence), Nazi Germany would have held Europe (including the UK) easily. Therefore I believe that Stalin and his actions were necessary, despite the utter evil which he committed on his own people. .
    What you're forgetting is that Stalin was attacked, and not the other way around. As a matter of fact at first he refused to believe that Hitler betrayed him.

    Had Hitler decided not to betray him, we would all speak German/Russian today. Except for me - I'd be dead.

    No doubt about it, he helped the Russian people to develop into what they have now (along with pretty much saving most of the western world from Nazi Germany)
    Well then one could say that Hitler tried to save the world from communism (which is true, in fact). Which is worse is a question of how stupid a person is, really.

    As for the development of the Russian people - the generation that grew under Stalin is struck by trauma of hunger, poverty and constant fear. Life under Stalin was unbearable. My grandmother was so paranoid that even when she lived in Israel, she hid her money inside a frozen chicken instead of putting it in the bank (not kidding).

    I recommend that you read "we the living" for a personal account of life in communist Russia.
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    (Original post by borismor)
    What you're forgetting is that Stalin was attacked, and not the other way around. As a matter of fact at first he refused to believe that Hitler betrayed him.

    Had Hitler decided not to betray him, we would all speak German/Russian today. Except for me - I'd be dead.
    I'm mainly talking about what Stalin did to his country, in terms of economic and social development and i believe that his actions were (horrific and brutal) essential to bring Russia into the modern world, which is what this thread was asking haha. Yeah no question really, we'd be speaking German/Russian if we were lucky (or unlucky enough) to survive.
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    (Original post by Frollo)
    You regard Hitler as a worse person than stalin? Though Hitler brings about nightmare to Europe, he helped German out from the depression very successfully and effectively. That was only achieved by president Franklin Rossevelt at the same time! Stalin kills over half of his military commanders to keep his throne safe! And that's why Russian army was flushed by the German at the first stage of the war. Hitler is a criminal, a bet loser who losed himself and German and the whole world, but he is not a foolish ruthless killer like Stalin.
    6 million Jews? I think he is...
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    without stalin, nazi germany would have taken virtually most of the world.
    The allies played a role in the war too, without "us", the Soviets would've barely armed themselves. Stalin's always been a touchy subject, and so has WW2, but who knows. Perhaps if Stalin hadn't industrialised the Soviet Union, the Nazi empire may have stretched far throughout Asia. However the allied victory had nothing to do with him.
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    (Original post by borismor)
    What you're forgetting is that Stalin was attacked, and not the other way around. As a matter of fact at first he refused to believe that Hitler betrayed him.

    Had Hitler decided not to betray him, we would all speak German/Russian today. Except for me - I'd be dead.



    Well then one could say that Hitler tried to save the world from communism (which is true, in fact). Which is worse is a question of how stupid a person is, really.

    As for the development of the Russian people - the generation that grew under Stalin is struck by trauma of hunger, poverty and constant fear. Life under Stalin was unbearable. My grandmother was so paranoid that even when she lived in Israel, she hid her money inside a frozen chicken instead of putting it in the bank (not kidding).

    I recommend that you read "we the living" for a personal account of life in communist Russia.
    Hitler would've betrayed the Soviets anyway, he hated them and thought of them as a sub-human race.
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    (Original post by ScotlandStandUp)
    Hitler would've betrayed the Soviets anyway, he hated them and thought of them as a sub-human race.
    Doesn't change the fact that Stalin was willing to cooperate with him.

    Hence - scum of the earth.
 
 
 
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