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Family has a problem with my conversion Watch

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    (Original post by Rafawozzy)
    I thought you were going to convert to another religion altogether judging by your thread title. I'll never understand why people complain about others "converting" to a different branch of the same one. Seems quite ridiculous to me as surely the fundamentals are the same.

    Just do it anyway , if you believe in God then you should believe that god sees your intention , and yours seems , to use religious terminology , "pure".
    :facepalm:
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    Why should it bother your parents which superstition you chose? Let kids make their own mistakes, I say. :yep:
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    I find it impossible to reconcile the Catholic church with the modern world. It seems, to me, such an utterly outdated institution I can hardly believe young people still see it as a viable lifestyle choice. With the combination of vitriolic hate against gays, ban on contraceptives and views on sex outside marriage, I find it almost medieval in outlook still.

    But that isn't the issue. On topic: yes, OP, it is your choice. Which of your parents are you closest to/is more accepting of your decision? Perhaps talk to that one on his/her own and if you do it quietly and try to avoid it getting into a shouting match (with references to dead family members!) they might begin to see your point. Reinforce that at 18 it is your decision. If they don't support/"allow" it, they will never change your mind: the only effect will be to detract from their relationship with you, which I'm sure they don't want.

    Good luck.
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    My Dad is more easy going. He hasn't been so argumentative about it but still believes the negative things said.

    Mums the one using dead relatives against me.
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    (Original post by MichaelG)
    :facepalm:
    :rofl2: Couldn't think of another example :p:
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    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    My Dad is more easy going. He hasn't been so argumentative about it but still believes the negative things said.

    Mums the one using dead relatives against me.
    So when you have a moment, try to talk to your dad on his own. (When your mum is out/you & your dad are out together). If you can get him onside, and make him realise how unreasonable your mum is, that will be a start. Talking to him sensibly about it one on one will at the very least show him how serious you are about the whole thing and mature about it.
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    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    My Dad is more easy going. He hasn't been so argumentative about it but still believes the negative things said.

    Mums the one using dead relatives against me.
    dont listen to this, you have freedom to think for yourself
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    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    Hi,

    Basically, I'm really looking into and considering becoming a member of the Roman Catholic faith. I was baptised into the C of E, but my parents have never actively practised (only going to weddings, christenings, funerals and Midnight Mass). I've been a member of my local Anglican church choir for almost four years and have since been confirmed, and lately, since reading into Catholicism, I've found it impossible to be part of a church formed from one man's greed and bullying. I can't accept that the Queen has authority over men's consciences. There are also other reasons - my current Anglican church is really cold and the people are unfriendly. It's not a good worship atmosphere.

    Lately I've been speaking to Catholic friends, the Father of the local RC church and have done a lot of thinking and reading. I'm convinced that this is the right faith for me, on so many levels. However, my parents have found my books and learnt of my visits to Mass. My mother is being really awful; she's started using the beliefs of my dead grandfather against me. He was an alcoholic and an atheist. When she sees me with a book on Catholicism she shouts "Your grandfather would be turning in his grave - you'd absolutely disgust him!". Purely because he had a catholic first wife, and as an atheist couldn't deal with it. It's really upsetting me. I've tried arguing, that because my grandfather was so racist, he wouldn't like my Anglicanism either (a true point, he despised all organised religion). I saw him die without faith, and this pushed me into growing into faith of my own. Am I right in thinking this is emotional blackmail?

    She also shouts at me that it's a fad and I'm supporting child abuse. My dads accused me of being racist and ignorant, when I know I'm none of these things. She's also blaming a woman at my current church (who doesn't even know I'm contemplating conversion), and I'm worried she'll go and verbally or physically attack this person, thinking that they've pushed me into it (not true in the slightest!). I'm 18, I believe I have the right to decide for myself where my faith should be. I know if I continue to go to the Anglican church my conscience will be torn to pieces and I genuinely fear for my soul (please don't laugh!). At the same time, I don't want all of this conflict with my parents. They aren't staunchly Anglican, so I don't see why they should have a problem. I'm really worried I'll be disowned. They're focused on the rumours that they've heard about Catholicism and don't seem to acknowledge it is the largest christian denomination in the world.

    I'm off to Uni in September, and if I convert I think I'll do so there. I'm really not wanting to cause a family argument, or sacrifice my spiritual well being for them. Clearly, I care about my family but I think this conversion is what God wants me to do and I'm torn between following my marked path or becoming really unhappy due to my parents.
    I'm afraid I dont see how your grandad despising all organised religion to be "racism".

    Also, one man's bullying, that's rather ironic what with the Roman Catholics having their pope as one man whose practically a "god on earth" and all.

    With comments like guilt stemming from contraception, you strike me as a very over-thoughtful sensitive person, perhaps vulnerable, who may be easily led. The catholic church is gonna love you. How does contraception stem guilt? Are you joking?

    And if you think abortion is murder and don't agree with contraception then well done on not making use of the scientific development and research which saves many people's lives every day, in more than one way. Today you say contraception is bad and stems guilt, tomorrow you'll be saying condoms don't prevent transmission of HIV. You belong in the catholic church congrats.
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    (Original post by Transatlanticdrawl_)
    I'm afraid I dont see how your grandad despising all organised religion to be "racism".

    Also, one man's bullying, that's rather ironic what with the Roman Catholics having their pope as one man whose practically a "god on earth" and all.

    With comments like guilt stemming from contraception, you strike me as a very over-thoughtful sensitive person, perhaps vulnerable, who may be easily led. The catholic church is gonna love you. How does contraception stem guilt? Are you joking?

    And if you think abortion is murder and don't agree with contraception then well done on not making use of the scientific development and research which saves many people's lives every day, in more than one way. Today you say contraception is bad and stems guilt, tomorrow you'll be saying condoms don't prevent transmission of HIV. You belong in the catholic church congrats.
    With an ex boyfriend, he didn't use contraception correctly - and he pushed me into taking the Morning after pill (making out it was my fault in the first place) and I realised I could have killed the making of an embryo. That's why i feel guilty. Contraception also causes more worries; nothing is 100% effective at protecting against everything.


    No, my granddad hate organised religion but my Dad seems to think it encourages racial divides.
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    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    My Dad is more easy going. He hasn't been so argumentative about it but still believes the negative things said.

    Mums the one using dead relatives against me.
    My ancient ancestors were pagans.
    And I'm proud of my ancestors.
    Our Saint King(who brought Christianity) was pagan,he had dozen wifes,600 girls-slaves,liked to fight and made millitary trips.But when he became old he became Christian.
    This cartoon is about him.As for me I like the second part of this track most of all.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ADy...eature=related
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    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    I can't accept that the Queen has authority over men's consciences.
    Yet you're choosing to worship someone who you can't and will never see. What' exactly is the difference between the Queen and God, why can't the Queen have authority over man and the Queen can't? What's the difference between the Queen and the Pope?

    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    Precisely, it's not like I'm renouncing Christ and becoming a Scientologist.
    The only difference between these religions is that Christianity has mass acceptance, they're both implausible.
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    It's only religion, who cares?
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    I hope you manage to work things out with your parents. I really can't understand why they'd feel so strongly about which denomination of Christianity you follow.
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    Well as I remember a priest saying at an RCIA thing I was at - do not commit unless you can commit fully - I felt unsure on teachings about contraception as one example and so didn't... but can understand why you feel as you do.
    lol your sig is ****** up
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    If I were you I would distance myself from organised religion, forming my own beliefs and morals based on what I believe.
    This probably won't work for you though
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    Hi, I'm going to come at this from a different angle. I'm a Christian having been saved in my first year of uni (I do not say converted as I do not attribute any aspect of my salvation to anything I have done but rather what Jesus has done for me). I do not subscribe to a branch of Christianity and I have found this to be the case for the majority of Christians I know. As an example when people choose churches at uni (and how I am choosing my church having reciently moved to a new area) most do not immediately gravitate to the denomination church they attended at home but rather look at the way the bible is taught and how the churches worship and if they feel that it is the place where they can best honour and serve God while being faithfully instructed in his word then that will be the church they attend.

    I see that you have expressed a concern over the queen being the religious leader of the church. I too would be worried if the queen were to have an influence on my faith but I do not believe she has does or ever will. Every church service I have attended has been focused around the Bible i.e. not what people have said but what God has said I don't think I have ever even heard her name in a Church service. Also the formation of the church in my opinion at least has very little to do with where it is now as a comparison I was born into a non Christian home this doesn't make me less of a Christian. In the same way the non RC church started out for the wrong reasons but it is still there now for the right ones i.e. to honour, worship and glorify God and faithfully teach his word.

    I would urge you not to base your opinion of the church on one individual instance of a church. Yes there are going to be bad churches that are cold and that do not suit you but equally there are many churches that still hold to the teachings of the Bible and are very good, very welcoming and friendly. Try a different one perhaps one that is less traditional. You said you are going to uni soon try getting involved with the Christian union I'll bet they have a web site with some contact details take a look and if they are anything like Bath CU they will be happy to speak to you and to guide you to a church that is a match for you when you get there, rather than converting give where you are a chance first.

    I am not well informed of the Roman Catholic faith but my understanding (and I am happy to be corrected if I have this wrong) is the the main division's between it and the rest of the church and therefore why many consider it to be a separate religion and the reason why there still is a divided are:

    Salvation: I believe it to be the case after reading the Bible that it says our salvation is entirely through faith nothing we do or say to one another effects our standing before God Philippians 3:9 says:

    "not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith"
    my understanding of this is and I'm sure you can see my reasoning is that it is faith that provides our salvation not what we do, not by works, not by following the Laws because no one can keep them 100% this theme is apparant in the bible in almost every book for instance Romans 3:21-24:

    But now a the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
    My understanding is that this is not the case in the RC church that things like confession are supposed to absolve you of sin and yes I will agree that admitting wrong doing and turning from that path is a major pillar of Christian faith but it is to God you must repent and it is he who will forgive you as it is him you have wronged. As even the pharasies say in Luke 5:21 and mark2:7 "Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

    Traditions and the Pope: My understanding of RC Church is that it is full of tradition and things designed by men like the pope. Jesus was quite clear that the commands of God take presedence over tradition Mark 7:6-9

    "he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” And he said to them, “You have a fine way of a rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!"
    The Apocrypha: the extra books in the RC Bible, I do not know much about them but I do know that Jesus is never recorded teaching or quoting from them.

    I am happy to discuss any further points and I do emphasise my knowledge of Catholicism is mostly second hand. But if my understanding is correct and forgiveness is taught to be by anything other than faith then I would question that the message of Jesus has been properly received.
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    You seem very confused OP...confusing hatred of religion with racism (yes, you actually did say your grandfather was "racist".

    (Original post by Choccielatte)
    I've tried arguing, that because my grandfather was so racist
    It does sound like you have been brainwashed. A lot of your arguments, especially the contraception one above, sounds like you are parroting someone elses words, it comes across really badly.

    Regardless, religion is a personal choice. Although I don't believe in the slightest that any kind of God exists I know that some people need religion and putting people off it merely strengthens the hold it has.
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    I'd just like to clear up some points for the OP. Apologies if you already know this stuff!:p:

    Salvation: I believe it to be the case after reading the Bible that it says our salvation is entirely through faith nothing we do or say to one another effects our standing before God.
    The only time the words 'faith alone' are mentioned in the Bible is in James 2:24 where it says " Man is justified by works and not faith alone."

    Did you really mean to saythat "nothing we do or say to one another effects our standing before God"? In Matthew 25, for instance, describing on Judgement Day Jesus separating the sheep from the goats, the sheep go on to eternal life, but the goats go to eternal punishment. The goats protest and ask Jesus when did they ever see Him hungry, thirsty, naked, ill or imprisoned and refuse to help Him. Jesus responds saying, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' Surely this passage alone bulldozes the belief that nothing we do or say to one another affects our standing before God?



    My understanding is that this is not the case in the RC church that things like confession are supposed to absolve you of sin and yes I will agree that admitting wrong doing and turning from that path is a major pillar of Christian faith but it is to God you must repent and it is he who will forgive you as it is him you have wronged. As even the pharasies say in Luke 5:21 and mark2:7 "Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
    In John 20:23, Jesus says to His apostles, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." Surely the apostles were not mind readers and so oral confession of sins was required.

    Traditions and the Pope: My understanding of RC Church is that it is full of tradition and things designed by men like the pope. Jesus was quite clear that the commands of God take presedence over tradition Mark 7:6-9
    From reading Mark 7 in its entirety, it's clear that the Jesus is condemning the attitude of the Pharisees- they put in so much effort making sure they are ritually clean, undefiled-following the tradition of the elders- and trying to appear holy. Their end seems to be doing these things rather than worshipping God. No-one could seriously argue that true Catholics have Mass etc. just to make themselves feel haughty, rather than because they want to worship God.

    The Apocrypha: the extra books in the RC Bible, I do not know much about them but I do know that Jesus is never recorded teaching or quoting from them.
    There are 8 other books in the Old Testament that are not quoted in the New Testament, but they are still contained in Protestant bibles. Anyway, as I'm sure you already know, not everything Jesus ever said is recorded in the Bible.

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    My family had issues with my "conversion" too.

    Although, my conversion was a 4 cylinder to V8 conversion... I was met with comments such as "don't bring that ******* noisy thing round here"...

    Still did it. Best thing I ever did.
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    Lol I find all this very ironic, as I 'turned away' from Catholicism a few years ago (they don't ever let you leave you know, not even becoming an atheist makes you un-Catholic :P) because of the hypocrisy and greed of it all.

    Nonetheless OP, I don't see why you can't become a Catholic and just not talk about it with your family? Just go to mass and whatever by yourself and don't start conversations on morality and dead grandparents. Also, you should point out that maybe your atheist granddad wouldn't have approved of your CoE relatives lol. At the end of the day beliefs are private things, they don't need to be discussed particularly if it's just an arguement.
 
 
 
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