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Is this worst living government of Great Britain? Watch

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    (Original post by BillV3)
    If this post shows one thing for sure, it's that the education system clearly isn't working in Preston.
    That's rich, coming from a person who instead of refuting the OP's argument, presents a juvenile, lazy ad hominem attack.
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    I think the OP needs some perspective as well as some common sense.
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    (Original post by BillV3)
    If this post shows one thing for sure, it's that the education system clearly isn't working in Preston.
    Its working alright, but this one escaped the net! :p:
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    (Original post by Shaniqua)
    That's rich, coming from a person who instead of refuting the OP's argument, presents a juvenile, lazy ad hominem attack.
    He was only kidding, you know. I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't allowed to answer a carefully written statement with an infuriating and pithy reply.
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    No.
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    Recently, many people are in an uproar over the BNP winning seats in Lancashire and South Yorkshire. Instead of ranting about them getting into power, have we actually thought why people voted for them? I would have voted for them. Not because of their race policy, because I don't think most BNP members are racist, they voted for them because they have no hope in this current government. who happens to be Labour, the party that supposedly speaks for working class rights.

    1) I find it heartbreaking that current inept government is representative of the British public. They don't give a **** about their citizens. The recent case of Gary Miccinon, shows how special the relationship is with the USA. So much so that this government is willing to extradite citizens of Britain to the United States based on unproven allegations.
    The UK values this relationship more than the Americans do. Obama couldn't give a hoot about maintaining the UK as its closest ally. At the least, it's generally not key in US foreign policy. Yet to a UK PM, it often IS the key point. This to me says it all about this "special relationship".
    2)If our economy is getting better apparently, how come every European Leader attacked the way Gordon Brown has handled our economy. There are so many artificial jobs now that are actually meaningless in this current recession. We have bailed out banks, which single handedly caused this recession. What further infuriates me, is that they are willing to sack people lower down the chain and not the people on the top with their big fat pensions.
    Are these other EU leaders trained economists? If not, why should their opinion mean a jot? And even if they were, economists are notoriously wrong in their predictions! Economic growth is picking up and the pound sterling has appreciated against other hard currencies. This in itself is a sign of macroeconomic improvement.
    3) British jobs for British workers. Instead of creating artificial jobs, Mr Brown has, why not force people to work, even if it is something like cherry picking. Because there is a sense of snobbery. I have no problem with immigrants working here, I understand we do need them in certain sectors because there is lack of those professionals. But my main concern is things like call centre; why are they based in India? Can someone please explain why they can not be based in Britain? After all the customers are British? Remember a few months back, the workers who staged a protest to work at a plant, where they work for donkeys years, and told to leave their jobs in the current climate and replaced by Italian and Spanish workers?

    Learn some basic economics. Firms outsource since the cost of doing business is lesser in India than it is in the UK. While businessowners are not always rational (well which human being is), firms operate where costs can be kept at a minimum and it is easier to do business.

    OK, look at it this way. An Indian can do as good a call centre job as a British person can. Yet since India is a third world country, and we are not, why pay a British worker (say) £18,000 per annum compared to an Indian worker who gets £3000? If both workers are as productive and trained well, then wouldn't most businessowners go with the Indian?
    4) Afghanistan and Iraq war, why are we spending billions in unpopular wars when the money is needed in this country, in the education sector, health sector etc... Why is there a need to spend millions on an inquiry if it is already determined what the verdict is going to be? We all know what the verdict is. The verdict that is based on lies from this transparent government.

    If there is anymore feel free to add...
    For point 4, well the government reckons Bin Laden hates our freedom, so they want to stop terrorism coming here. Whether Brown, and his predecessor who started the wars, have any real evidence that Al Qaeda hate us for who we are still remains to be seen.
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    Recently, many people are in an uproar over the BNP winning seats in Lancashire and South Yorkshire. Instead of ranting about them getting into power, have we actually thought why people voted for them? I would have voted for them. Not because of their race policy, because I don't think most BNP members are racist, they voted for them because they have no hope in this current government. who happens to be Labour, the party that supposedly speaks for working class rights.

    1) I find it heartbreaking that current inept government is representative of the British public. They don't give a **** about their citizens. The recent case of Gary Miccinon, shows how special the relationship is with the USA. So much so that this government is willing to extradite citizens of Britain to the United States based on unproven allegations.

    2)If our economy is getting better apparently, how come every European Leader attacked the way Gordon Brown has handled our economy. There are so many artificial jobs now that are actually meaningless in this current recession. We have bailed out banks, which single handedly caused this recession. What further infuriates me, is that they are willing to sack people lower down the chain and not the people on the top with their big fat pensions.

    3) British jobs for British workers. Instead of creating artificial jobs, Mr Brown has, why not force people to work, even if it is something like cherry picking. Because there is a sense of snobbery. I have no problem with immigrants working here, I understand we do need them in certain sectors because there is lack of those professionals. But my main concern is things like call centre; why are they based in India? Can someone please explain why they can not be based in Britain? After all the customers are British? Remember a few months back, the workers who staged a protest to work at a plant, where they work for donkeys years, and told to leave their jobs in the current climate and replaced by Italian and Spanish workers?

    4) Afghanistan and Iraq war, why are we spending billions in unpopular wars when the money is needed in this country, in the education sector, health sector etc... Why is there a need to spend millions on an inquiry if it is already determined what the verdict is going to be? We all know what the verdict is. The verdict that is based on lies from this transparent government.

    If there is anymore feel free to add...
    I thought you were an asian guy?
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    1)Firstly, I do realise that Mr Miccinon admitted to hacking. But his cases highlighted that the USA can extradite any British citizen without an ounce of evidence. All they have to do is outline the allegation. Are people happy with that?
    Shouldn't Mr Miccinon be tried under the UK justice system? After all, the incident did occur on UK soil. I do agree with what he did is wrong.

    2) Surely, Gordon Brown can intervene in such matters afterall protecting the interests of British citizens in regards to the jobs. Yes I am aware companies can do as they wish, but could there not be a legislations that toughens things up a bit... Same with the soaring electricity, gas and water prices...Someone needs to take a stand...The government could impose fines etc...I don't know...somethings needs to be done.

    3) It is not our war. The war is costing us billions when it needs to be directed here. Afghanistan nethier did Iraq attack us. The large majority do not support the war. Lifesharker, if we are going with your logic, then why aren't we in Zimbabwe? Your logic is laughable, are you trying to suggest rape and murder starts and stops in the Middle East?
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    Theres been worse governments than this before, the 1970's conservative Heath goverment had to implement a 3 day week becuase of a lack of major resources. This government hasnt succumbed to those levels yet.
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    Callaghan maybe?
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    1)Firstly, I do realise that Mr Miccinon admitted to hacking. But his cases highlighted that the USA can extradite any British citizen without an ounce of evidence. All they have to do is outline the allegation. Are people happy with that?
    Shouldn't Mr Miccinon be tried under the UK justice system? After all, the incident did occur on UK soil. I do agree with what he did is wrong.
    His confession isn't evidence?

    Also, the incident did not occur on UK soil technically speaking. He may have been on UK soil at the time, but the damage he caused was on US soil. It's comparable to someone taking a shot through the gate of an embassy; the shooter is on the soil of one country and the victim in another, but the country of the victim gets priority prosecuting him. I think in theory we could prosecute him as well, but the US get first crack; and that's the international convention.

    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    2) Surely, Gordon Brown can intervene in such matters afterall protecting the interests of British citizens in regards to the jobs. Yes I am aware companies can do as they wish, but could there not be a legislations that toughens things up a bit... Same with the soaring electricity, gas and water prices...Someone needs to take a stand...The government could impose fines etc...I don't know...somethings needs to be done.
    Not really. If the government tried to ban British companies from establishing call centres and whatnot in other countries, the companies would just make some minor alterations to themselves and with a bit of hoop jumping claim their head office as some tiny space in India. Then the UK branchs become the overseas branches, large quantities of tax money is lost, and the economy collapses. Great plan.

    If you're talking about restricting immigrants from working in this country in order to make it easier for a British born person to get jobs, I'm sure such a racist policy would go down great. Not to mention it's morally reprehensible.

    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    3) It is not our war. The war is costing us billions when it needs to be directed here. Afghanistan nethier did Iraq attack us. The large majority do not support the war. Lifesharker, if we are going with your logic, then why aren't we in Zimbabwe? Your logic is laughable, are you trying to suggest rape and murder starts and stops in the Middle East?
    No. I'm trying to suggest that the situation out there is currently worse than it was when we first entered. I don't agree with going there in the first place. But making a worse mess and then leaving them to sort it out is despicable, and anyone seriously suggesting it is, in my eyes, morally equivalent to the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorists. That's not even said just for effect, I am genuinely sickened. The money and resources are far more needed there, and after the monumental ****-up we made entering we have a responsibility to try and help. I dare say few of the Afghanistanis/Iraqi's find it, as you put it, laughable.

    Also, in future could you quote me when replying? I had no idea any of this was aimed at me until you mentioned me, it would be appreciated.

    As an ending note, I would say that the worst government in recent British history - or at least, the worst Prime Minister - was Anthony Eden, primarily for his handling of the whole Suez canal thing.
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    (Original post by Lifesharker)
    His confession isn't evidence?

    Also, the incident did not occur on UK soil technically speaking. He may have been on UK soil at the time, but the damage he caused was on US soil. It's comparable to someone taking a shot through the gate of an embassy; the shooter is on the soil of one country and the victim in another, but the country of the victim gets priority prosecuting him. I think in theory we could prosecute him as well, but the US get first crack; and that's the international convention.



    Not really. If the government tried to ban British companies from establishing call centres and whatnot in other countries, the companies would just make some minor alterations to themselves and with a bit of hoop jumping claim their head office as some tiny space in India. Then the UK branchs become the overseas branches, large quantities of tax money is lost, and the economy collapses. Great plan.

    If you're talking about restricting immigrants from working in this country in order to make it easier for a British born person to get jobs, I'm sure such a racist policy would go down great. Not to mention it's morally reprehensible.



    No. I'm trying to suggest that the situation out there is currently worse than it was when we first entered. I don't agree with going there in the first place. But making a worse mess and then leaving them to sort it out is despicable, and anyone seriously suggesting it is, in my eyes, morally equivalent to the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorists. That's not even said just for effect, I am genuinely sickened. The money and resources are far more needed there, and after the monumental ****-up we made entering we have a responsibility to try and help. I dare say few of the Afghanistanis/Iraqi's find it, as you put it, laughable.

    Also, in future could you quote me when replying? I had no idea any of this was aimed at me until you mentioned me, it would be appreciated.

    As an ending note, I would say that the worst government in recent British history - or at least, the worst Prime Minister - was Anthony Eden, primarily for his handling of the whole Suez canal thing.
    1) Do you agree that USA should extradite any British citizen without an ounce of proof and only outline an allegation? This establishment has signed up to a such a thing. This system can be abused, and it has been before...

    2) Point understood, I do think it is wrong but hey ho... Do you think it is right for people of British origin sacked from their jobs to be replaced by Spanish and Italian workers? It is not racist to imply such a thing. And I am asian. However I did say, yes we do need immigration.

    3)While I do support our troop and recognize the achievement made. I don't support the war in Iraq. I don't know why we are there in the first place. Iraq never attacked America or Britain and neither did they have wmds.
    Regarding Afghanistan, we
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    (Original post by Shaniqua)
    That's rich, coming from a person who instead of refuting the OP's argument, presents a juvenile, lazy ad hominem attack.
    it isn't an ad hominem attack. It is an insult. Here is the difference.

    Insult

    You smell.

    Ad Hominem

    You smell, therefore your argument is wrong.
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    Dad thinks Edward Heath and james Callaghan were far worse then this..
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    This government has no respect for human rights

    Loss of Rights (References to Universal Declaration of Human rights in brackets)

    Terrorism Act 2000 has attacked:
    Presumption of innocence (Article 11)
    Freedom of association (Article 20)
    Freedom of expression (Article 19)
    Right to peaceful protest

    Health and Social Care Act 2001 has attacked:
    Confidentiality of medical records (Article 12)

    Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 has attacked:
    Rights to privacy (Article 12)
    Confidentiality of medical and financial records (Article 12)
    Presumption of innocence (Article 11)
    Suspect’s rights in custody
    Right to silence

    Social Security Fraud Act 2001 has attacked:
    Rights to privacy (Article 12)
    Confidentiality of financial and other records (Article 12)

    Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 has attacked:
    Presumption of innocence (Article 11)
    Security of property

    Extradition Act 2003 had attacked:
    Right to a jury trial (Habeas Corpus – Foundation of legal system from Magna Carta)
    Right to a fair trial (Article 10)
    Freedom from arbitrary arrest (Article 9)

    Criminal Justice Act 2003 has attacked:
    Right to jury trial (Habeas Corpus – Foundation of legal system from Magna Carta)
    Double jeopardy rule

    The “Snooper’s Charter” has attacked:
    Rights to privacy of communications (Article 12)

    Civil Contingencies Act 2004 has attacked:
    Potentially almost all rights, the government can acquire absolute power. This is an enabling act. (Article 30)

    Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 has attacked:
    Presumption of innocence (Article 11)
    The right to know the evidence and charges/accusations against you
    The right to a fair trial or, indeed, any trial (Article 10)
    Potentially, almost any right, except the right against torture and the right to life

    Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 has attacked:
    Suspect rights
    The right to peaceful protest

    Data Retention (EC Directive) Regulations 2007 has attacked:
    Rights to privacy of communication – a record will be kept for everyone’s phone calls, emails, mobile phone calls (including location) and internet usage

    EU Data Retention Directive forcing ISPs to record every email and SMS from 15 March (2009)
    eborders scheme (Tracking all travel plans)

    Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.
    The RIPA regulates the manner in which certain public bodies may conduct surveillance and access a person's electronic communications. The Act:

    * enables certain public bodies to demand that an ISP provide access to a customer's communications in secret;
    * enables mass surveillance of communications in transit;
    * enables certain public bodies to demand ISPs fit equipment to facilitate surveillance;
    * enables certain public bodies to demand that someone hand over keys to protected information;
    * allows certain public bodies to monitor people's internet activities;
    * prevents the existence of interception warrants and any data collected with them from being revealed in court.


    See the universal declaration of human rights: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
    Documentary ‘Taking Liberties’: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy7zu3t3chs
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    no, not the worst government. Just one of the worst accummulation of ****, mostly out of government hands.

    A better communicator would be able to spin it, but Brown completely inept at it.
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    It probably is, but there are several things I realise now.

    To some extent, the government isn't as free to act as it would be de jure, despite its power.
    No matter the intentions of New Labour, they are limited in their ability to act by the consequences of stepping out of line. The string pulling extends to some elements of the government, and also determines public opinion towards it. Not to mention that the government has also been misled on some issues.

    Also, media spin confuses and misleads the public on various issues, making things seem more negative than they actually are.

    Whilst I don't support alot of Labour's policies in general, there is a tendency in tabloids especially to present a society in a countdown to destruction. It's trash, and hard to discern the truth when there's a spin on every angle. It presents the image of a completely demonic government which has everything wrong, only ever focusing on the bad parts.
    Also, hysterical exaggeration of problems... turning them into self-fulfilling prophecies.

    Then there are the government's lies, broken promises, and whatnot. Part of their game is often keeping people guessing on what's coming next, if they even have a strategy or proper plan for the future.
    I hate that the government lags behind on alot of issues, too. People are never updated on what's going on, what's on the agenda, unless they tune into BBC parliament to see the order of the day, or particular issues come to light.
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    I think anyone trying to seriously argue that the current government is the worst ever in Great Britain is pretty mad. I'd rather live now than in some Laissez-faire capitalist system of the 19th century.
 
 
 
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