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Why dont 'Common sense campaigners' protest against politically correct militarism? Watch

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    Why dont 'Common sense campaigners' protest against politically correct militarism?

    To expand.

    I see very often people who consider themselves common sense campaigners campaigning against political correctness. They claim it is ridiculous that we should have winterval instead of christmas (The idea of winterval was not designed to replace christmas but seized upon anyway).
    Many of the notions they campaign against appear to target ethnic minorities and quite honestly appear to be veiled racism.

    My intrigue to whether this is really a movement against political correctness or a form of veiled racism has led me to question why these people do not campaign against the increasing militarism in the UK.

    Today it is politically correct to call soldiers heros, to claim the war in Afghanistan is for a good cause, to revel in military parades, to chastise protesters who are legitiamtely protesting returning soldiers. Help for Heroes is a very politically correct cause to support.

    It appears many people would complain some political correctness is allowing the destruction of British culture and that supporting the military does not damage British culture thus military support is not offensive. However it appears to me this new militaristic fervor has been imported from the USA and is very Un-British, when i grew up it was normal to be skeptical of the military this however is being replaced by the American culture of hero whorshipping soldiers.

    I cosndier this a very dangerous and backwards culture to be apart of and would like to hear the views of the student room to this phenomenom.
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    I guess the difference is that most 'common sense' campaigns target politicians but it's much more difficult to target soldiers because they risk their lives for the country so people feel indebted to them.
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    I honestly don't know what you mean. Why is it "dangerous" and "backwards" to support a cause that you believe in? Why is it bad to give respect to soldiers and their families through parades? What does the US have to do with any of this, and how are we importing "backwards" culture to Britain? What does "politically correct militarism" even mean? Why are you blanketing all those you disagree with with such a silly, meaningless label?

    I understand your concerns about veiled racism and anti-immigrant sentiment (which are very real) but I don't quite see the connection you're trying to make with supporting British troops.
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    (Original post by oceanic156)
    I honestly don't know what you mean. Why is it "dangerous" and "backwards" to support a cause that you believe in? Why is it bad to give respect to soldiers and their families through parades? What does the US have to do with any of this, and how are we importing "backwards" culture to Britain? What does "politically correct militarism" even mean? Why are you blanketing all those you disagree with with such a silly, meaningless label?

    I understand your concerns about veiled racism and anti-immigrant sentiment (which are very real) but I don't quite see the connection you're trying to make with supporting British troops.

    Basically i am calling these campaigners hypocrites who do nto care about political correctness but are more interested in veiled racism.

    This new form of militarism is a form of political correctness. However people are not campaigning against it.

    These soldiers are not heros, but we can only hear them being called heros.

    The war in Afghanistan is a form of imperialism forcing another group of people thousands of miles away to live under our rules. It is not a just war.

    Militarism is very backwards and only justifies more war.

    This new brand of militarism has been imported from America where soldiers are cosndiered heros. Any society which values the soldier above the doctor has a serious problem.

    A lot of this new militarism has been championed by the sun newspaper, which is owned by the right wing Rupert Mudoch.

    To sum up, these anti PC campaigners are hypocrites and militarism is bad.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Basically i am calling these campaigners hypocrites who do nto care about political correctness but are more interested in veiled racism.

    This new form of militarism is a form of political correctness. However people are not campaigning against it.

    These soldiers are not heros, but we can only hear them being called heros.

    The war in Afghanistan is a form of imperialism forcing another group of people thousands of miles away to live under our rules. It is not a just war.

    Militarism is very backwards and only justifies more war.

    This new brand of militarism has been imported from America where soldiers are cosndiered heros. Any society which values the soldier above the doctor has a serious problem.

    A lot of this new militarism has been championed by the sun newspaper, which is owned by the right wing Rupert Mudoch.

    To sum up, these anti PC campaigners are hypocrites and militarism is bad.
    Ok;

    1. Soldiers volunteer to fight wars regardless of the meaning of the war. To some people, this is immoral. But remember that some day, even if we may not be fighting a just war now, we will be fighting a just war, and we have fought just wars. Volunteering to fight a just war is perhaps the most heroic thing someone can do.

    2. "a man distinguished by exceptional courage and nobility and strength;" is the definition of heroes. It doesn't take courage or nobility or strength to be a doctor. Yes, it takes skill, intelligence, and it's an admirable job. Doctors save lives. But Doctors have never saved a country in its time of need.

    3. Our Armed Forces are involved around the world, not just in Afghanistan and Iraq. In the Falklands they stand ready to defend British sovereignty and British citizens. In the Balkans, Kosovans waved British flags on their independence because they knew they were secure with British and American troops in the region. In Sierra Leone we put a stop to a brutal civil war. Just because we may be fighting some unjust interventions right now, that doesn't mean we aren't justly protecting people and states.

    4. The UK is not a militaristic country. Our per capita spending on defence is widely regarded as insufficient for our needs. I'm a dove, an appeaser, an isolationist, whatever, an anti-militarist -- but I respect our troops, and our armed forces, because they've volunteered to protect me, at the risk of their own life. That's why, in my opinion, they are heroes, until proven otherwise individually.

    5. This is not imported from the United States. My grandparents were very pro-forces because they lived and fought through the War. It's just your left wing generation who were born thinking that your freedom doesn't need protecting. Guess what: it does. You should feel proud and privileged to live in this country, as opposed to any other you could have been born in where you would be drafted into the military, arrested for criticising them, or tyrannised in any other way. The reason our country isn't like that is because some people gave their tomorrow for your today.

    6. Yes, attacks on political correctness can be linked to racism (especially since I don't think political correctness, in the form that is being attacked, particularly exists) but I don't see what link this at all has to supporting our armed forces.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Ok;

    1. Soldiers volunteer to fight wars regardless of the meaning of the war. To some people, this is immoral. But remember that some day, even if we may not be fighting a just war now, we will be fighting a just war, and we have fought just wars. Volunteering to fight a just war is perhaps the most heroic thing someone can do.

    2. "a man distinguished by exceptional courage and nobility and strength;" is the definition of heroes. It doesn't take courage or nobility or strength to be a doctor. Yes, it takes skill, intelligence, and it's an admirable job. Doctors save lives. But Doctors have never saved a country in its time of need.

    3. Our Armed Forces are involved around the world, not just in Afghanistan and Iraq. In the Falklands they stand ready to defend British sovereignty and British citizens. In the Balkans, Kosovans waved British flags on their independence because they knew they were secure with British and American troops in the region. In Sierra Leone we put a stop to a brutal civil war. Just because we may be fighting some unjust interventions right now, that doesn't mean we aren't justly protecting people and states.

    4. The UK is not a militaristic country. Our per capita spending on defence is widely regarded as insufficient for our needs. I'm a dove, an appeaser, an isolationist, whatever, an anti-militarist -- but I respect our troops, and our armed forces, because they've volunteered to protect me, at the risk of their own life. That's why, in my opinion, they are heroes, until proven otherwise individually.

    5. This is not imported from the United States. My grandparents were very pro-forces because they lived and fought through the War. It's just your left wing generation who were born thinking that your freedom doesn't need protecting. Guess what: it does. You should feel proud and privileged to live in this country, as opposed to any other you could have been born in where you would be drafted into the military, arrested for criticising them, or tyrannised in any other way. The reason our country isn't like that is because some people gave their tomorrow for your today.

    6. Yes, attacks on political correctness can be linked to racism (especially since I don't think political correctness, in the form that is being attacked, particularly exists) but I don't see what link this at all has to supporting our armed forces.

    1) Bagration, people join the military to make money, they are not heros, very many of them do not have the skill or ability to find other jobs or they wish to get onto easy training programs which pay well when completed. I study engineering and i know a guy who has only GCSE's who earns more than me just because he signed up for the military and they put him onto a soft engineering course.

    2) Have you met any soldiers? They are anything but noble. They are a bunch of louts.
    Courage and strength? These guys all think they are fighting an inferior enemy who can't kill them, and when they do die they whine about not having the right equipment when they are fighting guys with AK 47s. They probably want unmanned drones to do all the work for them.

    3) Wow, very naive. The British armed forces operate almost only to benefit the UK, they are not a humanitarian force. A lot of what you think is a just war is Britain just gaining power in different regions of importance.

    4) If this nation was ever under a real threat, we would both be conscripted, they do not protect me or you. If anything they incite hatred that leads to terrorist attacks.

    5) That comment was ironic, you claim this is not an imported ideology and then speak just as an American would. No Soldier has died for my freedom, this is just recycled American propaganada with A british flag stamped on it.
    I am not left wing, and as i have already stated if there ever was a war which threatened me, i would be drafted to fight in the army (well probably as an engineer).
    I don't feel priveledged to live in this country, I actually plan to move.

    6) I am claiming that supporting the military has become politically correct and i am questioning why the people who rally against PC aren't angry at this NEW trend.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    1) Bagration, people join the military to make money, they are not heros, very many of them do not have the skill or ability to find other jobs or they wish to get onto easy training programs which pay well when completed. I study engineering and i know a guy who has only GCSE's who earns more than me just because he signed up for the military and they put him onto a soft engineering course.
    I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Earth to you: Everyone works to make money.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    2) Have you met any soldiers? They are anything but noble. They are a bunch of louts.
    Courage and strength? These guys all think they are fighting an inferior enemy who can't kill them, and when they do die they whine about not having the right equipment when they are fighting guys with AK 47s. They probably want unmanned drones to do all the work for them.
    Anecdotal evidence = logical argument fail. In my experience none of them have been louts, so, unless either you or I can provide any solid evidence... my evidence is in the nature of their work, where's yours?

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    3) Wow, very naive. The British armed forces operate almost only to benefit the UK, they are not a humanitarian force. A lot of what you think is a just war is Britain just gaining power in different regions of importance.
    Ok, except you didn't disprove anything I said, you just said I was naive, which... isn't an argument. Sorry. Debate and Discussion is for Debate and Discussion, not for you to posit positions and then attack people who demand you back them up with any evidence/who provide counter-evidence.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    4) If this nation was ever under a real threat, we would both be conscripted, they do not protect me or you. If anything they incite hatred that leads to terrorist attacks.
    Good luck living in a country without Armed Forces then?

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    5) That comment was ironic, you claim this is not an imported ideology and then speak just as an American would. No Soldier has died for my freedom, this is just recycled American propaganada with A british flag stamped on it.
    I am not left wing, and as i have already stated if there ever was a war which threatened me, i would be drafted to fight in the army (well probably as an engineer).
    I don't feel priveledged to live in this country, I actually plan to move.
    Nonsense. It's not American at all. You just think it's American because of pre-existing bias against the United States / our Army. This country has a tradition of supporting our military. Considering your profile says you're only five years older than me I don't think you are in the position to say "Well, back in my day..." which is still within living memory for me.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    6) I am claiming that supporting the military has become politically correct and i am questioning why the people who rally against PC aren't angry at this NEW trend.
    It's not a new trend. Sorry. http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Earth to you: Everyone works to make money.

    Anecdotal evidence = logical argument fail. In my experience none of them have been louts, so, unless either you or I can provide any solid evidence... my evidence is in the nature of their work, where's yours?

    Ok, except you didn't disprove anything I said, you just said I was naive, which... isn't an argument. Sorry. Debate and Discussion is for Debate and Discussion, not for you to posit positions and then attack people who demand you back them up with any evidence/who provide counter-evidence.

    Good luck living in a country without Armed Forces then?

    Nonsense. It's not American at all. You just think it's American because of pre-existing bias against the United States / our Army. This country has a tradition of supporting our military. Considering your profile says you're only five years older than me I don't think you are in the position to say "Well, back in my day..." which is still within living memory for me.

    It's not a new trend. Sorry. http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/
    Yes, these soldiers are not noble they are just after jobs because they couldn't get any GCSEs. Get real!

    Solid evidence? What do you think this is? regardless as this is my thread the onus is on you to disprove what i say not the other way around.
    I have met a noble soldier before, my GF's friend brought him out. He was crazy and wanted to start fights on everyone, all of my friends told her never to bring him ever again.
    The nature of their work? Killing people in their own country and trying to change their way of life? How is this noble?

    Every country has an armed froces however they do not go out starting stupid ideological wars like the 'war on terror'. Nor do they push militarism as much as the US and soon to be the UK.

    Yes this new brand of militarism has been imported from the US. We can criticise the soldiers, they are not heros, they are not fighting for my freedom, i don't owe them anything. They are a bunch of idiots who couldnt gey any other jobs. If any war happened which threatened my security i would be conscipted to serve as an engineer.

    Only in the last year or two did this new trend occur, you just appear to support it. Before this no one cared about the military and people were skeptical of milatirism.

    British legion is old but that does not represent the new brand of milatirism. The new trend invovles a lot more hero whorshipping, parade watching, attacking people skeptical of soldiers and war etc
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Yes, these soldiers are not noble they are just after jobs because they couldn't get any GCSEs. Get real!
    Despite the fact you need A levels for many positions in the military?

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Solid evidence? What do you think this is?regardless as this is my thread the onus is on you to disprove what i say not the other way around.
    What do I think this is? I think it's a forum where I've made a number of thousands of posts. I think I know how it works. If you suggest a position you require evidence, regardless of whether its your thread or not. If you are trying to prove something, the burden of proof lies on you. So go find some.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    I have met a noble soldier before, my GF's friend brought him out. He was crazy and wanted to start fights on everyone, all of my friends told her never to bring him ever again.
    As I just said, anecdotal evidence doesn't make you right.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    The nature of their work? Killing people in their own country and trying to change their way of life? How is this noble?
    Ok, so it's obvious you have no idea what the military does. Go read a book or something.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Every country has an armed froces however they do not go out starting stupid ideological wars like the 'war on terror'. Nor do they push militarism as much as the US and soon to be the UK.
    Wow, militarism is rife around the world: China, Russia, Israel, Singapore, Iran, just off the top of my head are all militaristic states, even India is more militaristic than we are. Your hatred of our armed forces is illogical. Their primary purpose is to defend this country. All other purposes are secondary.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Yes this new brand of militarism has been imported from the US. We can criticise the soldiers, they are not heros, they are not fighting for my freedom, i don't owe them anything. They are a bunch of idiots who couldnt gey any other jobs. If any war happened which threatened my security i would be conscipted to serve as an engineer.
    I didn't say you couldn't criticise them, but if you're going to do so, put up a logical argument that doesn't consist of;
    1. Numerous fallacies,
    2. Anecdotal evidence,
    3. Ad-hominem attacks on generally respected occupations,
    4. Baseless assertions you're unable to prove.

    Thanks.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Only in the last year or two did this new trend occur, you just appear to support it. Before this no one cared about the military and people were skeptical of milatirism.

    British legion is old but that does not represent the new brand of milatirism. The new trend invovles a lot more hero whorshipping, parade watching, attacking people skeptical of soldiers and war etc
    Wow, you are really quite ignorant. British troops have ALWAYS paraded through their base towns when returning from a tour of duty, that's a tradition. Nobody is being attacked for being sceptical of war or militarism. It's just nonsense. This "new trend" you're claiming exists has always been around when we are fighting a war. Obviously in peacetime it's a different matter, but we are at war now, whether you think it's unjust.

    Frankly, this obsession you have with the idea that there is now a new trend of militarism forming in this country taken from the USA is quite obviously taken from the fact you have some personal grudge against the Armed Forces (Quite well demonstrated by your comments on this thread) or against the United States.
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    There have always been parades, and the minority of people who attack the armed forces have always been looked down on with contempt. It’s only because of the current war in Afghanistan and recent government activity that the military is in the media spotlight
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Today it is politically correct to call soldiers heroes,
    Rubbish, soldiers have pretty much always been called heroes because of the dangerous, life threatening and brave work they do.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    to claim the war in Afghanistan is for a good cause,
    Its always politically correct in some degree to claim a war is for a good cause. I think with Afghanistan though, a lot of people generally do think its a good cause, as a opposed to Iraq, so i don't really see any political correctness there.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    to revel in military parades,
    We always used to 'revel in military parades' and we are not exactly doing that at the moment. A few parades for servicemen coming home? Its always happened.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    to chastise protesters who are legitimately protesting returning soldiers.
    Its not neccesarily because of what they're protesting about, its they way they do it. In the USA being very religious and being against homosexuality is considered normal in some parts, but even in the USA its certainly not acceptable to protest at someone funeral saying 'God hates ****, Please God kill our troops' like those Westboro Baptists do. Its the same thing here. I see no political correctness in that, just common human decency.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Help for Heroes is a very politically correct cause to support.
    Rubbish, soldiers get only a small amount of support for the government, those that come back wounded with missing limbs, or those that come back with mental problems get little help from the government. You think its bad that we help people with problems like that?
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    (Original post by TheJudge)

    This new form of militarism is a form of political correctness.
    Explain this please.


    The war in Afghanistan is a form of imperialism
    And this.


    Militarism is very backwards and only justifies more war.

    This new brand of militarism has been imported from America where soldiers are cosndiered heros. Any society which values the soldier above the doctor has a serious problem.
    This is probably true...


    To sum up, these anti PC campaigners are hypocrites
    I get it that you call PC'ness racist, ofen the problem not the solution etc. But you are arguing that those who support soldiers challenge it but perpetuate it through their support?

    Is their support for the war out of PC conformity?

    Do you think that the war, or support for the war, challenges PC attitudes or not?

    And how (the hell?) is it imperialistic?

    I have no idea what you're saying

    EDIT: Ok OP, in the time it took me to write this post, things changed and your emerging childishness and bigotry made it unnecessary. Good one.
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    political correctness is just something the daily mail invented to enrage everybody, pay no attention and it will soon go away.

    anyway, most people want to support the troops, not the war, if that makes any sense.
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    (Original post by Joluk)
    Rubbish, soldiers have pretty much always been called heroes because of the dangerous, life threatening and brave work they do.


    Its always politically correct in some degree to claim a war is for a good cause. I think with Afghanistan though, a lot of people generally do think its a good cause, as a opposed to Iraq, so i don't really see any political correctness there.


    We always used to 'revel in military parades' and we are not exactly doing that at the moment. A few parades for servicemen coming home? Its always happened.


    Its not neccesarily because of what they're protesting about, its they way they do it. In the USA being very religious and being against homosexuality is considered normal in some parts, but even in the USA its certainly not acceptable to protest at someone funeral saying 'God hates ****, Please God kill our troops' like those Westboro Baptists do. Its the same thing here. I see no political correctness in that, just common human decency.


    Rubbish, soldiers get only a small amount of support for the government, those that come back wounded with missing limbs, or those that come back with mental problems get little help from the government. You think its bad that we help people with problems like that?

    Soldiers are not heros, they are just normal guys doing a job. I work in a job where i risk my life and my job actually helps keep this country running (railway work). Am i suddenly a hero?


    How is the Afghan war for a good cause? this is just apart of the PC and indoctrination that is occuring.

    Actually military parades are getting a lot more news than they ever have, only a year or two ago military parades would be dead no one would be there and generals were whining how the UK population does not care about its soldiers like Americans do.
    However unfuortunately the UK is once again and pathetically following the dregs of American society.

    The west boro baptitst church protesting at funerals is a lot different than muslim protesting a military parade where they are chased of by violent thugs and chavs. Isn't it funny how the lowest members of British society and invovled the most with the milatiristic flag waving.

    If the government followed my belief of not joining the Afghan war or the Iraq war there would not be a single UK soldier casualty. I agree with metnal problems, every soldier who has returned from a war zone should be processed through a psychiatric ward before they are allowed back into society, these men are killers, they are dangerous people.
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    No, OP; political correctness, like everything bad, is left-wing. Militarism is not associated with the left (except for when it is), and therefore cannot be a kind of political correctness, or otherwise in any way bad.

    Seriously though, that's actually an interesting point. (Even more seriously, I think even I have a point :lolwut:)
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    +1 on go read a book, OP
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Soldiers are not heros, they are just normal guys doing a job. I work in a job where i risk my life and my job actually helps keep this country running (railway work). Am i suddenly a hero?


    How is the Afghan war for a good cause? this is just apart of the PC and indoctrination that is occuring.

    Actually military parades are getting a lot more news than they ever have, only a year or two ago military parades would be dead no one would be there and generals were whining how the UK population does not care about its soldiers like Americans do.
    However unfuortunately the UK is once again and pathetically following the dregs of American society.

    The west boro baptitst church protesting at funerals is a lot different than muslim protesting a military parade where they are chased of by violent thugs and chavs. Isn't it funny how the lowest members of British society and invovled the most with the milatiristic flag waving.

    If the government followed my belief of not joining the Afghan war or the Iraq war there would not be a single UK soldier casualty. I agree with metnal problems, every soldier who has returned from a war zone should be processed through a psychiatric ward before they are allowed back into society, these men are killers, they are dangerous people.
    How is working on the railways life threatening?

    The afghan war is a good cause because it prevents the taliban from killing as many innocent people as would otherwise be the case. The NATO states that an attack on one party is considered an attack on all parties do you think that we should leave NATO or simply ignore it when it doesn't suit us? Don't you believe in preventing evil people from murdering innocent people? Please explain how things could have possibly turned out better for the afghan cvilians if we had not invaded.

    It has been proven that if troops come home to a good welcome like a military parade then they are less likely to have mental problems later on. Its not right to protest at military parades because soldiers are just doing a job. If you wanted to object to a new law passed by the government would you protest outside your local police station or outside parliament? If you wanted to protest against a new tax would you protest outside your local council offices or parliament?
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Why dont 'Common sense campaigners' protest against politically correct militarism?

    To expand.

    I see very often people who consider themselves common sense campaigners campaigning against political correctness. They claim it is ridiculous that we should have winterval instead of christmas (The idea of winterval was not designed to replace christmas but seized upon anyway).
    Many of the notions they campaign against appear to target ethnic minorities and quite honestly appear to be veiled racism.

    My intrigue to whether this is really a movement against political correctness or a form of veiled racism has led me to question why these people do not campaign against the increasing militarism in the UK.

    Today it is politically correct to call soldiers heros, to claim the war in Afghanistan is for a good cause, to revel in military parades, to chastise protesters who are legitiamtely protesting returning soldiers. Help for Heroes is a very politically correct cause to support.

    It appears many people would complain some political correctness is allowing the destruction of British culture and that supporting the military does not damage British culture thus military support is not offensive. However it appears to me this new militaristic fervor has been imported from the USA and is very Un-British, when i grew up it was normal to be skeptical of the military this however is being replaced by the American culture of hero whorshipping soldiers.

    I cosndier this a very dangerous and backwards culture to be apart of and would like to hear the views of the student room to this phenomenom.
    What would be because you are wrong. Legitimately protesting a homecoming parade does not include the freedom to go a parade with signs such as 'Butchers of Basra' and wonder why people get annoyed.

    When I start walking about with a sign 'Behead those who are Islamic' and expect to go un-molested, then we'll consider whether or not they can protest.

    Get over yourself, you're like a jealous kid who sees another boy getting all the girls attention and now you're annoyed.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Today it is politically correct to call soldiers heros, to claim the war in Afghanistan is for a good cause, to revel in military parades, to chastise protesters who are legitiamtely protesting returning soldiers. Help for Heroes is a very politically correct cause to support.
    Politically correct? No. This is not what "politically correct" means.

    (Original post by TheJudge)
    It appears many people would complain some political correctness is allowing the destruction of British culture and that supporting the military does not damage British culture thus military support is not offensive. However it appears to me this new militaristic fervor has been imported from the USA and is very Un-British, when i grew up it was normal to be skeptical of the military this however is being replaced by the American culture of hero whorshipping soldiers.
    Absolute rubbish. Respect for our military is far lower than it used to be. Its as British as can be. I also wonder why you have liberally sprinkled the word "American": you accuse others of being thinly veiled racists, but it appears that it might be you who is the racist!
 
 
 
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