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Why dont 'Common sense campaigners' protest against politically correct militarism? Watch

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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Im sorry but i cannot take your views on the Army seriously, you had 1 week of experience. It sounds to me as if you are just trying to find something to blame your failure on, you couldn't hack it, so what? Don't feel bitter towards those who could.
    You are assuming i was there for one week. Wrong!

    I was the best, the fittest, the strongest and the best shot. I am a top athlete who has been asked to represent Britain.

    The army appeared to me not to care about being the best only to be subordinate to your superiors. They seemed to resent me for out performing the other people. ''In a war zone we work to the level of the slowest member'' almost exact words of what was said to me. My reply? ''they'd be dead in a warzone''.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    You are assuming i was there for one week. Wrong!

    I was the best, the fittest, the strongest and the best shot. I am a top athlete who has been asked to represent Britain.

    The army appeared to me not to care about being the best only to be subordinate to your superiors. They seemed to resent me for out performing the other people. ''In a war zone we work to the level of the slowest member'' almost exact words of what was said to me. My reply? ''they'd be dead in a warzone''.


    :rofl: I am sorry but you sound like Gareth from the office.
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    If you don’t work together, you all die. Your right, you superiors do not care that you are the 'best' and probably weren’t too keen on the cocky attitude you seem to have, thats what gets you killed.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :rofl: I am sorry but you sound like Gareth from the office.

    Great, i'm not bothered by your opinion. I think you should leave my thread. I get it you don't like me and don't think highly of me...... that is not the topic of the thread.

    I think you sound like a ****. So what...
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Great, i'm not bothered by your opinion. I think you should leave my thread. I get it you don't like me and don't think highly of me...... that is not the topic of the thread.

    I think you sound like a ****. So what...
    No, i don't like the fact that you seem to blame the troops for things like torture and invasion etc.. Troops follow orders, troops did not decide to invade Afghanistan and pursue an unjust war.

    The Army is a tool under the control of the Government. Would you blame a hammer for striking your hand or would you blame the person using the hammer?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    No, i don't like the fact that you seem to blame the troops for things like torture and invasion etc.. Troops follow orders, troops did not decide to invade Afghanistan and pursue an unjust war.

    The Army is a tool under the control of the Government. Would you blame a hammer for striking your hand or would you blame the person using the hammer?
    Its the troops who are committing torture. They have the ability to kill people and i can gaurantee you they are not all exercising the maximum restraint. For every abuse story you hear there are 100 you don't hear. Half the soldiers out there are just happy they get the chance to shoot some 'pakis'.
    I was in the army and i know this, i was told by the guy training me that we need to get good with our rifles so we can kill Iranians.


    A poor analogy.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Well yes torture has occured in Iraq and in Afghanistan. More roads were blown up then have been built. Lets not make out like these people are making these countries better, they're reducing their economies to zero, destroying much of their infrastructure, killing many people and causing huge braind rain. They are basically destroying these countries and they will not function properly for many years.

    You will find i correctly defined this trend of militarism as politically correct.

    I said American to show that this militarism is alien to British culture equally as much as winterval. Many of the campaigers against politically correctness will argue Christmas is British and calling it winterval is appeasing foreign elements in the UK. I was showing that these people are hypocrites and only are offended by left wing political correctness.

    I agree with lots of American cultural traist. I think they have the bets sports system in the world and we should aim to copy it, however American militarism is definetly a negative quality.
    Your view of Afghanistan is extremely naive. Afghanistan never had any decent infrastructure and has never had an effective government: it was essentially a failed State; that is why the Taliban were able to fill a void by acting as a government might. Afghanistan is going to be no worse after this war than it was before it.

    I'm also not convinced over Iraq. Iraq now has a functioning democracy and a police force and military capable of looking after its own security. This has got to be a step up from Saddam - there is certainly no risk of Kurds being gassed or Kuwait being invaded now.

    You are defining anti-PC campaigners far too narrowly. As pointed out time and time again, support of the troops does not go hand-in-hand with support of the war. Nor is it something new. The military has always been very important to this country: WW1 and WW2 are fresh in people's memories. The UK had an Empire until the 1960s. People have banged on about the Royal Navy for centuries. A military tradition here is nothing new.

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    They do not criticize the reasons we are at war, they do not investigate why we were attacked in the first place, if they criticise anything, it will be a lack of equipment for troops etc (which is not a bad thing).
    I don't think this is true. The media routinely criticise the reasons for being at war - that was a big discussion on the last episode of "The Week", for example. Why we are being attacked in the first place is also a very common discussion - though if you are implying that we are somehow to blame, then this becomes difficult to substantiate given the fact that 9/11 and a spate of bombings occured BEFORE Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It may be in the interests of the media as a whole to stay at war. But it is not in the interests of individual newspapers: individual newspapers benefit from being as heavy-handed and critical as they possibly can. Newspapers like the Guardian and Independent have pretty consistently been against the wars.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Its the troops who are committing torture. They have the ability to kill people and i can gaurantee you they are not all exercising the maximum restraint. For every abuse story you hear there are 100 you don't hear. Half the soldiers out there are just happy they get the chance to shoot some 'pakis'.
    I was in the army and i know this, i was told by the guy training me that we need to get good with our rifles so we can kill Iranians.


    A poor analogy.
    You didn't even make it out of basic training, you know nothing. I bet a soldier on the frontline halfway through his first tour, who fears for his life everyday isn't happy that he gets to "shoot some paki's" as you so eloquently put it.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Your view of Afghanistan is extremely naive. Afghanistan never had any decent infrastructure and has never had an effective government: it was essentially a failed State; that is why the Taliban were able to fill a void by acting as a government might. Afghanistan is going to be no worse after this war than it was before it.

    I'm also not convinced over Iraq. Iraq now has a functioning democracy and a police force and military capable of looking after its own security. This has got to be a step up from Saddam - there is certainly no risk of Kurds being gassed or Kuwait being invaded now.

    You are defining anti-PC campaigners far too narrowly. As pointed out time and time again, support of the troops does not go hand-in-hand with support of the war. Nor is it something new. The military has always been very important to this country: WW1 and WW2 are fresh in people's memories. The UK had an Empire until the 1960s. People have banged on about the Royal Navy for centuries. A military tradition here is nothing new.


    I don't think this is true. The media routinely criticise the reasons for being at war - that was a big discussion on the last episode of "The Week", for example. Why we are being attacked in the first place is also a very common discussion - though if you are implying that we are somehow to blame, then this becomes difficult to substantiate given the fact that 9/11 and a spate of bombings occured BEFORE Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It may be in the interests of the media as a whole to stay at war. But it is not in the interests of individual newspapers: individual newspapers benefit from being as heavy-handed and critical as they possibly can. Newspapers like the Guardian and Independent have pretty consistently been against the wars.

    It is you who is naive, Afghanistan not have had much (but only because of nations attacking them in recent past) but Iraq did have an economy and now the only jobs left are military and police. Iraq also suffers massive brain drain, huge amounts of crime, womens rights have deteriorated, violence has increased. Just where Britian and America wanted Iraq a weak but subserviant oil producing state.


    I think you will find the british people have always seen militarism with cynicism, only recently after British generals complained about the lack of support for the British army compared to how much the American support their army did this new wave of militarism start.

    Curiously if you look at the people championing this nonsense its the lower end of society, the same people who send their uneducated sons to serve in the military. Scum supporting scum.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    You didn't even make it out of basic training, you know nothing. I bet a soldier on the frontline halfway through his first tour, who fears for his life everyday isn't happy that he gets to "shoot some paki's" as you so eloquently put it.

    They are probably too busy complaining about equipment while they fight guys with AK-47s. Its just pathetic. ''Spend more tax payers money on us during a recession we don't like little villagers with AK-47s having even a tiny bit of a fighting chance'' So much for nobility.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    . Afghanistan never had any decent infrastructure and has never had an effective government: it was essentially a failed State; that is why the Taliban were able to fill a void by acting as a government might. Afghanistan is going to be no worse after this war than it was before it.
    In 1973 Afghanistan became a fully functioning and really quite liberal democracy, The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan promoted equal rights for women, freedom of Religion etc. It had very great potential as a nation. Hoowever America saw Afghnaistan only as a tool against the Soviets, and began manipulating and exploiting it's leaders and it's people, funding anti Soviet forces even though it was obvious this would provoke a reaction from the north at the expense of innocent Afghan lives. Surprise, surprise in 1979 the Soviets invade and full scale warfare ensues against the American funded Mujahadeen, which included a young Osama Bin Laden. Ten years later 2 million Afghans lay dead as the Soviets withdraw, America, believeing it's job to be done also leaves, just like that. Those same men who America had trained and armed to the teeth now run amok across the country, mass rapes occur, innocent civilians die by the thousand, men assume the title of warlord, but the west doesn't care anymore, Afghanistan is no longer worth a penny. It was this lawless and bitter society that welcomed the Taliban in the 90's for the Afghani people any kind of order was a relief from the chaos that America had caused. America and the west bought the situation in Afghanistan upon itself by carelessly exploiting developing countries around the world. Imagine how different life would be presently if the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan had survived.Our Governments are to blame for the current situation, for Al Qaeda, for Osama and for all of our brave soldiers returning home in boxes.



    I'm also not convinced over Iraq. Iraq now has a functioning democracy and a police force and military capable of looking after its own security. This has got to be a step up from Saddam - there is certainly no risk of Kurds being gassed or Kuwait being invaded now.
    What is happening in Iraq at the moment just shows the ignorance that western government has in relation to history. We are arming and training the Sunni Muslims in Iraq to be the Iraqi army, men who were essentialy Saddams henchmen back in the 90's. The war in Iraq is far from over. I personally believe that as soon as America has fully pulled out (If that ever does happen) There will be a military coup, and a Sunni General will overthrow the Government, becoming a new Saddam, and the sad thing is that most peoplle will support him because they detest America and the West.


    I don't think this is true. The media routinely criticise the reasons for being at war - that was a big discussion on the last episode of "The Week", for example. Why we are being attacked in the first place is also a very common discussion - though if you are implying that we are somehow to blame, then this becomes difficult to substantiate given the fact that 9/11 and a spate of bombings occured BEFORE Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Exactly, and a little reading into middle eastern history and politics will reveal that we did bring 9/11 upon ourselves. Wether it was destroying Afghanistan in the 80's or stationing troops in Saudi Arabia on what is considered by all Muslims as Sacred Holy Land. We bombed Iraq for 10 long years all through the 90's and imposed economic sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims. American attack helicopters and tanks killed thousands in Palestine, they just happened to be piloted and driven by Isrealis. Men like Saddam and Osama used this underlying hate and resentment towards the west to stir up a storm of Islamic fundamentalism, such was the ignominity of the Islamic world that young men were willing to blow themselves up!

    Osama Bin Laden did not attack us because we are free and liberal. He actually said in one of his videos why he attacked us. He said it was because of our support and backing of the Saudi Royal family and for our desecrating Islamic Holy Land by stationing troops in Saudi Arabia.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    They are probably too busy complaining about equipment while they fight guys with AK-47s. Its just pathetic. ''Spend more tax payers money on us during a recession we don't like little villagers with AK-47s having even a tiny bit of a fighting chance'' So much for nobility.

    That is so absurd and unbelieveably naive. I am not even going to bother with a counter argument. Here's some advice, read a book.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    People die working on the railways.

    NATO should be liquidated, it has no purpose. It was created to combat soviet Russia and just didn't go away.

    It depends who you call the evil people in Afghanistan British and American soldiers are the evil people who have come to change their way of life.

    Its completely fair and right to protest military parades these people are murderers and killers. Those muslims ahd a peaceful protest and they were attacked by a baying mob of the lowest memebrs of British society.
    The chavs and the scum went to attack those people, who coincidentally are the same people who fill up our armies. They are probably very happy to murder Afghanis i know when i was in the army the impression i got was they look down on middle eastern people and wanted to kill them.
    People die in offices, working on the railways is nothing special or different.

    How is changing the afghan way of life a bad thing? If you watch a clip over the internet of a child being stoned and blood bursting out of their body don't you think things should be changed so that such horrors no longer happen?

    Your some sort of pacifist nutjob who doesn't care about people being killed and tortured so long as its nothing to do with you. I care more about justice so im happy everytime a taliban man is killed because they stand for an evil ideology, not one that threatens me in any way but one that is evil regardless. Those muslims are wierdos they support the stoning, beheading and whipping of innocent children and people. It was in the news that a saudi arabian princess has been given asylum in Britain because if she returned she would killed for adultery and her baby may be killed as well. Muslims who protest stand for extremism and evil, they are not nice people they are worse than chavs.
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    (Original post by MrFroggy)

    How is changing the afghan way of life a bad thing? If you watch a clip over the internet of a child being stoned and blood bursting out of their body don't you think things should be changed so that such horrors no longer happen?

    Your some sort of pacifist nutjob who doesn't care about people being killed and tortured so long as its nothing to do with you. I care more about justice so im happy everytime a taliban man is killed because they stand for an evil ideology, not one that threatens me in any way but one that is evil regardless. Those muslims are wierdos they support the stoning, beheading and whipping of innocent children and people. It was in the news that a saudi arabian princess has been given asylum in Britain because if she returned she would killed for adultery and her baby may be killed as well. Muslims who protest stand for extremism and evil, they are not nice people they are worse than chavs.

    :facepalm2: You think we we are in Afghanistan to protect the people?
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Butchers of Basra is a perfectly acceptable sign to have, these soldiers are murdering people they are slaughtering people, they are torturing people.

    'Behead those who are islamic' is an illegal sign to hold because it is hate preaching and inciting violence.

    How am i jealous of soldiers? They have a ****, dangerous and low paid job. I however consider it disgusting how the politically correct right wing are making these people into heroes when theya re anything but.
    Congratulations, you are officially a ****.

    You're jealous because a) The ywere good enough to get into the army.
    b) Because society respects the risks they take.
    c) I suppose you see our enemies as freedom fighters yes? I'll bet you're a socialist as well, thank god for the Tyranny of the Majority. It serves to keep those incapable of thinking at the required level away from positions of power. It also allows you to keep your tiny, narrow minded view.

    It shocks me though that out of the millions of sperm that went for that egg, it was deformed one that went on to make you that got there first. Your dad has problems.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :facepalm2: You think we we are in Afghanistan to protect the people?
    I don't care whether its an objective or not, it is a consequence of us being there and one that justifies the whole thing.
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    (Original post by MrFroggy)
    I don't care whether its an objective or not, it is a consequence of us being there and one that justifies the whole thing.

    A consequence of us being there is also thousands of innocent Afghans homeless and dead. Tell me, does that justify us being there?

    A consequence of us being there is more and more Afghani sympathy for the Taliban and Bin Laden, does that justify us being there?

    A consequence of us being there is the installation of Karzhai as president a man who is so corrupt he makes the Taliban look legitimate.

    A consequence of us being there is a growing list of young British soldiers dead, and for what? Afghanistan is one of many countries that harbour and support terrorists. When are we going to invade Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan or Syria? If anything our presence in the middle east plays into the hands of master propogandists like Bin Lade and Abu Hamza.


    I could go on.
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    Congratulations, you are officially a ****.

    You're jealous because a) The ywere good enough to get into the army.
    b) Because society respects the risks they take.
    c) I suppose you see our enemies as freedom fighters yes? I'll bet you're a socialist as well, thank god for the Tyranny of the Majority. It serves to keep those incapable of thinking at the required level away from positions of power. It also allows you to keep your tiny, narrow minded view.

    It shocks me though that out of the millions of sperm that went for that egg, it was deformed one that went on to make you that got there first. Your dad has problems.
    a) Don't be such a moron, do you think you have to be someone special to make it in the army, the army is full of morons. As long as you have a minimum physical fitness and do as you're told they will love you. The person next to me on the shooting range couldn't hit a single thing (literally) and they liked that person more than me when i had the best accuracy of the whole group. I am sure if i wanted to i could join the army again, engineers appear tog et paid very well. However i don;t want to be responsible for blowing people up.

    b) The dregs of society appear to be their main support base followed closely by toffs. Many people still see the army as what it is.

    c) I don;t think we have a right to go to another country and change how they live, equally i don;t think we should have sharia law in the UK. I respect them for fighting, i think they are tough as nails and put our army to shame. I am not a socialist i believe in capitalism, i want to be a multi millionaire.

    Yep, i am a top athlete and top student, but some moron on the internet is offended by my views and so ofcourse i am some form of sub human. Well done for failing.
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    (Original post by MrFroggy)
    People die in offices, working on the railways is nothing special or different.

    How is changing the afghan way of life a bad thing? If you watch a clip over the internet of a child being stoned and blood bursting out of their body don't you think things should be changed so that such horrors no longer happen?

    Your some sort of pacifist nutjob who doesn't care about people being killed and tortured so long as its nothing to do with you. I care more about justice so im happy everytime a taliban man is killed because they stand for an evil ideology, not one that threatens me in any way but one that is evil regardless. Those muslims are wierdos they support the stoning, beheading and whipping of innocent children and people. It was in the news that a saudi arabian princess has been given asylum in Britain because if she returned she would killed for adultery and her baby may be killed as well. Muslims who protest stand for extremism and evil, they are not nice people they are worse than chavs.
    Actually the railway has a much more significant fatality risk.

    How is changing the way we live any different? Maybe if we had sharia law we would have less teenage pregnancy and lower STI rates....

    We don't have a right to change the Afghan way of life to conform with what we want. It was Machiavelli who said in the Prince that you cannot conquer an enemy and change their way of life, it will never work they will rebel against your changes.

    A taliban man is killed because he stands for an evil ideology? Or his wife was killed in a bombing raid by American planes and he wants to rid his country of enemy soldiers...

    You are so brainwashed it is sad.

    So you are attacking all muslims now rather than the Taliban? Are you anti-Islamist?

    That is the muslim world for muslims, let them live by their own laws and how theys ee fit you have no right to change it and tell them how to live.
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    Originally Posted by TheJudge
    Its the troops who are committing torture. They have the ability to kill people and i can gaurantee you they are not all exercising the maximum restraint. For every abuse story you hear there are 100 you don't hear. Half the soldiers out there are just happy they get the chance to shoot some 'pakis'.
    I was in the army and i know this, i was told by the guy training me that we need to get good with our rifles so we can kill Iranians.


    A poor analogy.
    Why would you shoot Iranian's? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran is next to Iraq so you won't be shooting anyone from Iran.
 
 
 
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